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I'm pretty sure MOST of the blacks in jail are in there for nonviolent drug crimes... Repeal the War on Drugs and watch those numbers drop.
When I was a teenage dirtball, I was involved in drug sales.
If you think for an instant there are no victims, you are out of touch with reality. People subject themselves to awful things to get drugs; that part, I'm relatively indifferent to. However, they subject children to an awful, awful life.
It's only through the grace of God that I was blessed with a concsience and stopped what I was doing when women would offer their bodies in the most degrading ways for drugs and I witnessed out-of-wedlock children living in squalor when their mothers were away for days at a time chasing their next high.
We're all victims of the drug trade. The biggest tragedy is that so many people don't see the real consequences that they carry the opinion that there are no victims. In this day and age when the nation will go on a witchhunt over a thirty year old accusation of sexual abuse, I think it's a sad state of affairs that we don't start hunting the drug dealers and users who are doing more widespread damage.
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Originally Posted by LLLL98
How about, just be afraid of ALL MEN? I mean statistically speaking, of course, since that seems to be the crutch that everyone is relying on for their views, we should be afraid of all men because they commit most violent crimes. This is just silly.
Actually, I thought you were making sense. You should be more cautious with your safety around all men.
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As a side note to white people, please stop congratulating yourselves for all of the black people that you know, or are friends with, or are married to, or have had deliver your POD without incident. And then go on to list all of the reasons why it is then okay to judge people using racial stereotypes.
This sounds ridiculous.
You think they should just go back to calling them N's? You think people who haven't been around members of the opposite race shouldn't be happy and proud of themselves when they begin to conquer, within their own lives, racism? Or, maybe you think people should get an all-out free ride on account of their race?
There is good reason to generalize. It makes sense. It's instinctive. It's intelligent. However, you're attacking people who have learned and are expressing the limitations of generalizing.
These stories are local stories and there are police making statements. Then I follow to see how the story develops and who ends up getting arrested or convicted for the crimes. So that's where I get my FACTS.
Blacks are causing a large part of the homicides. A significant number of blacks (as posted by LauraKGrisgby ace defender of the blacks) are victims of these homicides themselves, and lastly a good portion of the black male population is incarcerated in our prison systems. And when any of us makes a statement that it is a large percentage is it because blacks are only 15% of the general US population, yet they are responsible for way more than 15% of the homicides (52%) and prison population. And that is a statistical anomaly.
Census: More blacks, Latinos live in cells than in dorms - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/census.prisons.ap/index.html - broken link)
And no one is saying that blacks are prone to mischief or violence, but these facts show that something is very wrong with the black populations in the US, particularly the inner cities. Something in their culture needs to be fixed. Personally, I feel that it's not productive to keep the anger about the slavery days. And the black community needs to focus on placing a much higher value on getting a good education having good family values, and wanting to take back their neighborhoods from the criminal element and the slackers.
Your FACTS still seemed to be steeped in stereotypes. So you are saying that there are no other local stories about crime in the media except ones caused by blacks? Just because the media may not show it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
So are yous aying that the anger of the slavery days are what is causing the problem? I have no doubt that there are some people who carry resentment, but i'm sure there are more problems than that that are society's as a whole, not just the black population, but it's much more simple to say and think the opposite.
Your FACTS still seemed to be steeped in stereotypes.
That might have something to do with the fact that stereotypes are rooted in fact.
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So you are saying that there are no other local stories about crime in the media except ones caused by blacks? Just because the media may not show it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
No, but it's only reasonable to assume that if you hear about nine crimes committed by blacks compared to one committed by a white, then people are going to conclude that blacks commit more crimes. To expect anything else is naive. You make conclusions based off the information you have... not complete information. That's reality. If you didn't, then you'd have what's called "intellectual paralysis": You'd never make decisions because you're always looking for one more piece of info. (Think President Carter.)
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So are you saying that the anger of the slavery days are what is causing the problem?
That and governmental racism up to the 70's-- which, for all practical purposes are part of the same category of oppression.
The manifestation of this anger is the irresponsible belief that the aberrant segment of blacks that retain their slave-culture rather than integrating should be accepted on account of their race and the trials of their ancestors without regard to a culture that creates a vacuum to draw in an oppressor.
Why is it that the question of "do you fear black men" is even a consideration? Why are black people even concerned about whether or not someone fears them? Because there's a demented sort of pride in it that comes from a culture that thinks there's something good in being feared by fellow citizens... when the opposite is true: People don't want to associate with others who are happy to incite fear. (Again, this isn't the race as a whole-- Only the aberrant portion... which, tragically, exist in all races... )
That might have something to do with the fact that stereotypes are rooted in fact.
No, but it's only reasonable to assume that if you hear about nine crimes committed by blacks compared to one committed by a white, then people are going to conclude that blacks commit more crimes. To expect anything else is naive. You make conclusions based off the information you have... not complete information. That's reality. If you didn't, then you'd have what's called "intellectual paralysis": You'd never make decisions because you're always looking for one more piece of info. (Think President Carter.)
That and governmental racism up to the 70's-- which, for all practical purposes are part of the same category of oppression.
The manifestation of this anger is the irresponsible belief that the aberrant segment of blacks that retain their slave-culture rather than integrating should be accepted on account of their race and the trials of their ancestors without regard to a culture that creates a vacuum to draw in an oppressor.
Why is it that the question of "do you fear black men" is even a consideration? Why are black people even concerned about whether or not someone fears them? Because there's a demented sort of pride in it that comes from a culture that thinks there's something good in being feared by fellow citizens... when the opposite is true: People don't want to associate with others who are happy to incite fear. (Again, this isn't the race as a whole-- Only the aberrant portion... which, tragically, exist in all races... )
Just because stereotypes exist, doesn't mean that we have to play along with them. If we don't, the pattern never changes and that stereotype becomes fact. It's hard to break stereotypes, but i'm not one to just go along and say "that's the way it is" If so, then society will have a very long way to go in helping to make things better. It's up to all of us in different capacities to help do away with those stereotypes.
That is my point about the media. there is no way that anyone can say that much of the news we get is fair and balanced, so if it's not fair and balanced then wouldn't that play a part in the perception? So if everyone believes verbatim what the media believes, then opinion is steered into what the storytellers want you to believe. If this is the case, then I don't see it as Intellectual Paralysys, I see it as getting the whole story for yourself.
I don't think that this question should be relavent, but I cannot agree that it's because of a demented sort of pride. In looking back at the question, the OP didn't seem to phrase it that way, it was more like "why are you fearful?" I don't have any pride in someone fearing me because of those stereotypes, I think it's a shame that some people can't open their mind up enough to think that not everyone acts like the stereotypes given to them. Again, that would mean some people would have to pay the price for others actions. Hey, I've never committed a robbery, but to have someone look at me and think that I would rob them without knowing anything about me is not a price anyone should have to pay.
I sat back and looked at the thread and didn't comment again until recently because some of the comments I saw were just plain crazy and shows why some things are the way they are. I mean can you honestly say that blacks are predisposed to violence? That is utterly ridiculous.
When I was a teenage dirtball, I was involved in drug sales.
If you think for an instant there are no victims, you are out of touch with reality. People subject themselves to awful things to get drugs; that part, I'm relatively indifferent to. However, they subject children to an awful, awful life.
It's only through the grace of God that I was blessed with a concsience and stopped what I was doing when women would offer their bodies in the most degrading ways for drugs and I witnessed out-of-wedlock children living in squalor when their mothers were away for days at a time chasing their next high.
We're all victims of the drug trade. The biggest tragedy is that so many people don't see the real consequences that they carry the opinion that there are no victims. In this day and age when the nation will go on a witchhunt over a thirty year old accusation of sexual abuse, I think it's a sad state of affairs that we don't start hunting the drug dealers and users who are doing more widespread damage.
Actually, I thought you were making sense. You should be more cautious with your safety around all men.
You think they should just go back to calling them N's? You think people who haven't been around members of the opposite race shouldn't be happy and proud of themselves when they begin to conquer, within their own lives, racism? Or, maybe you think people should get an all-out free ride on account of their race?
There is good reason to generalize. It makes sense. It's instinctive. It's intelligent. However, you're attacking people who have learned and are expressing the limitations of generalizing.
Put yourself in other people's shoes.
I am all for progress, and people getting past some of their stereotypes in order to forge friendships and relationships with those from other races, but I find fault with those that do so, but in other areas, still hold on to those same stereotypes.
Conquering racism is no small task, and it does take baby steps, but it also takes people being honest with themselves.
There was a post earlier from a woman who said that for years, she thought that she really "got it" in terms of racial issues, but it was only when she became a grandmother to a black child that she realized that she had never before really "got it". That's what I was talking about, I think it's a bad thing when people think that they get it, but really don't. I can't tell you how many times I have personally heard blatently racist statements, either followed by or prefaced by the comment, in some form, "I'm not a racist, I mean I've got a lot of black friends " or "Don't think I'm racist, my sister's husband is black", or something of the sort.
It's not really about putting myself in other people's shoes, I was raised in a very, let's say, racially insensitive family and I attended mostly white schools (until college), but I found that having those narrow types of views about people would really limit me in my life, so I decided to try to be different.
I mean can you honestly say that blacks are predisposed to violence? That is utterly ridiculous.
From their behavior in the White countries they inhabit as well as their behavior in their own societies on the 'mother continent' it would easy to give a resounding: yes.
From their behavior in the White countries they inhabit as well as their behavior in their own societies on the 'mother continent' it would easy to give a resounding: yes.
A resounding yes in your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, but that kind of thinking is IMO dangerous and narrow-minded.
Just because stereotypes exist, doesn't mean that we have to play along with them. If we don't, the pattern never changes and that stereotype becomes fact. It's hard to break stereotypes, but i'm not one to just go along and say "that's the way it is" If so, then society will have a very long way to go in helping to make things better. It's up to all of us in different capacities to help do away with those stereotypes.
I disagree. It's up to one person to change the stereotype: The person who's the subject of it. Stereotypes make sense. Stereotypes keep people safe. I don't owe you risking my daughter to a higher liklihood of rape because someone doesn't let you in their house without ID because you're black. Get over it and grow up.
Arguing against stereotypes is arguing against rational decision-making. Why not do something more productive like attack the elements of cultures from which stereotypes spring?
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That is my point about the media. there is no way that anyone can say that much of the news we get is fair and balanced, so if it's not fair and balanced then wouldn't that play a part in the perception? So if everyone believes verbatim what the media believes, then opinion is steered into what the storytellers want you to believe. If this is the case, then I don't see it as Intellectual Paralysys, I see it as getting the whole story for yourself.
If you want people to believe that the news is biased against blacks, then present some good evidence.
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I've never committed a robbery, but to have someone look at me and think that I would rob them without knowing anything about me is not a price anyone should have to pay.
That and a dollar will buy you a bag of Doritos. "Shoulds" are for suckers. In the real world, what matters is that my daughter never gets raped. What matters is that I don't get robbed. If a person doesn't get as much respect, opportunity, etc. from someone (outside of the government, of course) then it's that person's problem. That's life. Spend more time acting in a way inconsistent with the stereotypes and telling others to do the same and maybe then the stereotypes will be recognized to no longer be true.
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I sat back and looked at the thread and didn't comment again until recently because some of the comments I saw were just plain crazy and shows why some things are the way they are. I mean can you honestly say that blacks are predisposed to violence? That is utterly ridiculous.
Agreed. However, I suspect that either the poster is an idiot or mischose his/her words. EDIT: In light of the post that followed, you can guess which I'd conclude...
[quote=One Thousand;3733375]I disagree. It's up to one person to change the stereotype: The person who's the subject of it. Stereotypes make sense. Stereotypes keep people safe. I don't owe you risking my daughter to a higher liklihood of rape because someone doesn't let you in their house without ID because you're black. Get over it and grow up.
Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I see in no way where stereotyping makes any sense. Stereotypes keep people safe? Letting someone in your house without ID is common sense, not based on any stereotype.
Get over it and grow up? If that is your opinion of being grown up, then I hope I never do.
Arguing against stereotypes is arguing against rational decision-making. Why not do something more productive like attack the elements of cultures from which stereotypes spring?
Again, I don't see how stereotyping is akin to rational decision making, but again those are your feelings and we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I have always said that there are issues on both sides of this debate, but where is the answer if those stereotypes keep being put on the people who are trying to make changes? This line of thinking would never help put the pieces together to change things.
That and a dollar will buy you a bag of Doritos. "Shoulds" are for suckers. In the real world, what matters is that my daughter never gets raped. What matters is that I don't get robbed. If a person doesn't get as much respect, opportunity, etc. from someone (outside of the government, of course) then it's that person's problem. That's life. Spend more time acting in a way inconsistent with the stereotypes and telling others to do the same and maybe then the stereotypes will be recognized to no longer be true.
I'm sure it matters to everyone that nothing happens to their children. Parents should give them the tools to do so, but does playing the odds game really help? " Hey, watch out for black men because they may rape you, but all other men, well the chance may nto be that great" I would think that teaching safety all around would be better. Also, how do you know that I personally act in a way that is inconsistent with stereotypes? Oh I forgot, stereotypes & rational thinking go hand in hand, so since the stereotype says that we all act the same, thats enough rationale to make it true.
I'm sure it matters to everyone that nothing happens to their children. Parents should give them the tools to do so, but does playing the odds game really help? " Hey, watch out for black men because they may rape you, but all other men, well the chance may nto be that great"
This, I believe, demonstrates where the miscommunication lies: I don't think white people are good in any sense of the word based on their color. I don't like white people any more than I like blacks or Mexicans-- I'm a conservative white male-- I don't like anyone.
I don't tell my daughter "blacks are unsafe, but whites are." I tell her "don't go into that black neighborhood because the risk of violence is greater." Equally, I'll tell her (when it's age appropriate) don't party with college boys because all of them are likely to drop something in your drink and have you waking up naked or the group will do something to you because you put yourself in a bad position. Life is about playing the odds... because you can't take back a decision that leads to your destruction.
Earlier in this exchange, I said "stereotypes are rooted in fact." You didn't refute that. However, now you say "I see in no way where stereotyping makes any sense." Are you claiming that stereotypes are not based on fact? Are you saying that my personal experience that reinforces stereotypes should be disregarded in favor of your mere opinion that my perception of my experience is inaccurate?
That's the problem with arguing against stereotypes: You're telling people that they shouldn't beleive themselves... but believe you instead. In all reality, that is part of the slave culture: Someone else knows better. That is the vacuum that draws in an oppressor. If I don't know well enough, then I must follow the one who claims to know.
This is the aberrancy that has developed in the culture of America.
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Also, how do you know that I personally act in a way that is inconsistent with stereotypes?
I don't. However, because you've argued your position in a articulate, civilized way, you have demonstrated that the odds should be moved toward a more favorable position for you.
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Oh I forgot, stereotypes & rational thinking go hand in hand, so since the stereotype says that we all act the same, thats enough rationale to make it true.
If that's how a person uses stereotypes, then I'd say they're doing themselves and others a serious disservice. Stereotypes are not used for deductive reasoning, but inductive. Life is based on inductive reasoning.
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