Are you scared of black men?? (politician, Oregon, dangers, Louisiana)

[drkman]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Off the top of my head, over the years, I've known between 100 and 150 blacks well enough to hang out at their place. I've associated, via organizations I've been involved in, maybe 300 more. (I'm also marrying a black woman, that has put me in the position to see many blacks act more naturally than most whites see.)

Originally Posted by One Thousand

How, in God's name, is there any way to make conclusions about things if you don't observe them?

Katrina is an example of slave culture. When NOLA flooded, blacks were standing out front the dome hollering "We want help" as opposed to "Please help us".

Why were those people demanding help instead of begging? Because they felt they were owed or deserved certain treatment that they weren't receiving. Why is that? Because they didn't feel responsible for their own lives-- they put responsibility for their lives in the government-- a powerholder-- a slavemaster.

I know various people that were affected by Katrina and none of them were demanding help. They also did not have to beg for help nor should they have to. The same way a hurricane hits Florida or somewhere along the coast and evacuations are needed, no one needs to beg to be evacuated and it is strange that you would even say that they needed to beg for help like they were some kind of panhandlers, unless that is what you think. When a tragedy occurs, whether it is an act of God or an act of War, it is the government's responsibility to step in and restore order. For how some of those people were treated, Katrina was a disgrace. Downing the people that experienced this tragedy is a tragedy in itself. The same way you expect the government to protect you in times of war, the same way you expect the government to have some kind of response to human tragedy on a mass scale, is the same way these people were probably feeling. It has nothing, and I stress nothing to do with some kind of perceived slave mentality. That is something that people want to place on Blacks and it does not exist. Do not equate a Congressman or Senator to the people who suffered this. Yes, they put the people in office to represent them but they also placed the President of the US in office to represent them. No one expects the government to take care of them on a daily basis but when tragedy occurs the government is supposed to be there. There is a reason that we pay taxes, unless you feel that these people were not paying taxes, and I would think that a government response to a tragedy is one of those reasons.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Of course, the slave's response is "but the government was responsible". But an onlooker would respond,"Yes, but who is the government? You are. You have Congressional representatives who were choosing to use federal funds for million dollar parks rather than fixing the levees. You chose not to pay attention to your employees-- Your Congressional reps." Of course, the response is "The government should have known to fix it" etc. And I say to you, these people are still complaining about their owners who aren't treating them right-- Not making the connection that they're their own owners now-- they're their own people responsible for themselves... but black people don't want to be free... they just want a slave owner who treats them better.

That is a highly offensive statement. Maybe the 150 to 300 Black people that you know so well have that mentality but I have never met one that does. I don't know if you are even aware of how offensive that statement is to people, and I would think it is offensive to people regardless of their race. In addition, the onlookers that I talked to, White and Black alike, were disturbed by the tragedy and the government's response. I can't recall one ever talking about the Congressmen that represented New Orleans.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

What happens when a black person tries to do better? Clarence Thomas, Condy Rice, Colin Powell? These people don't kowtow to black-helplessness, so they're labelled "Uncle Tom's"... because success without a handout isn't black... without prescribing to the beliefs of a necessity for a benevolent slave owner, you can't be black. What happens when a black like Cosby says that blacks are responsible for themselves... when he doesn't toe the line that demands blacks be dependant on a slave master? He's an "Uncle Tom".

There are many, many Black people who have done good professionally. Do you honestly think that Black people want handouts? No, No and No again. Most Black people that have made it professionally have had to work harder then their contemporaries in the work force due to the same mentality that you are spewing forth in these posts. Colin Powell was and still remains a very respected man. Condoleeza Rice is also a respected figure but dislike for her tends to be more Bush orientated then anything else. Clarence Thomas is a whole other issue. Dislike for him was or is due to his thought process but that is not the subject here.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

Who is Uncle Tom? Uncle Tom was a fictional slave who was relatively happy with his life because he had decent owners. However, his last owner was terribly cruel from beatings to rapes. The house servant had Simon Legree's (the cruel slave owner) child. She sets up an escape.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

By this time, Uncle Tom's too old to try, but she goes. Legree suspects Tom's involvement and beats Tom without mercy to tell the plan. Tom refuses. Tom gets beaten to death, but never talks.

That's a man... atleast in cultures that celebrate independance and justice. America would give you a medal for that... but the slave culture? The slave culture prefers to disregard that part... The slave culture prefers to throw the name around rather than even read the 300 page book that helped gain opposition to slavery.

Thank you for the lesson but it is already something that is fairly well known. Utilizing the term Uncle Tom is just utilizing a term. It is not significant but if you really want to break it down it has nothing to do with the man not talking. It has to do with his subservient attitude towards his masters. That is what the term is based on, his subservient attitude. BTW, what difference does it make how many pages the book is. 300, 400, 500 or 1000 pages. A book is a book that if you want to read it and enjoy it you will. I regularly read novels over 1000 pages because I enjoy the books. A 300 page book would be a breeze to read, if it was enjoyable. Maybe the Blacks that did not read Uncle Tom's Cabin were not interested in it.

Originally Posted by One Thousand

The black culture refuses to accept responsibility for itself as if they were still enslaved and someone else pulled the reins of their lives... by doing this, blacks stay in a state of dependance just like any slave would be dependant on his/her master.

The same way that I cannot speak on the White culture, please do not generalize the Black culture. No offense but the type of Black you are describing maybe the kind of Black person your fiancée is but that is very different from the majority of Blacks. We are very diverse and we are no more dependent than anybody else. By making a statement you are disparaging all of those men and women who work hard to build a better life for them and theirs just like every other person. We are not some kind of curiosity on the side that want to be taken care off, and want a master and want to be whipped and taken away from our loved ones and it is a disgrace that you are implying that. The bigger question is what dependencies do you have that you have taken for granted as if you are entitled to it? What has the government done for your race or culture that have put you in the position that you are in today? What help has the government granted you and your race so that you can freely obtain the dreams that you want? The Black culture is not dependent on some kind of fictitious slave master. For you to even utilize that type of symbolism is strange. Black people do not sit around and think about slavery but some people want to really believe that this is what we do. We can talk about it as a topic of conversation, we can talk about the effects slavery has had on our culture, on America etc, but we are not looking for nor do we need some kind of master in order to achieve our dreams. We look forward to the future but we remember the past. There is nothing wrong with that. On various posts in City-Data, I have seen where Blacks try and explain this same thing but the responses are always about how you need to get over slavery. Even when the conversation is not about it, like this one wasn't, slavery is brought into the picture. When people are talking about where the best place to go fishing, the conversation turns around to those Black people and slavery. Always the same thing like we are some kind of Johnny One Note. BTW, Johnny One Note is a song about a guy that only sings one note.

[LLLL98]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

There is a discrepancy between this statement and your entire beleif system. Your decision not to respond to the direct questions that reflect your rationale further supports that.

If you beat your kids but then claim that child abuse is wrong, telling the judge that child abuse is wrong doesn't prove that you don't beat your kids.

I really don't know what you are trying to prove aside from:

you = correct & rational
me = wrong & irrational (oh and "liberal-minded" ?)

Racism is not the same thing as noticing physical and cultural differences associated with race. I have been on both sides.
I have spent the day with my Grandfather and his buddy ( black man ) while they laugh and talk and then my Grandad and I get in the car and it's N word this, N word that, but he's friends with that black guy, because that black guy is okay. Racist.
One of the men that I work with is good friends (longtime friends) with a Puerto Rican guy, I have heard him say on several occasions that his daughter knows better than to ever bring home one of "them". Racist.
Everyone in my fiance's family, and most of his black friends, put hot sauce on their food, I notice this, even comment on it. Not-racist.

I get the impression that you are a last word kind of guy, so have it, really.

[Reads2MUCH]

I am scared of rich people!!

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by drkman

I know various people that were affected by Katrina and none of them were demanding help. They also did not have to beg for help nor should they have to.

I watched 1,000s on TV demanding help... and why shouldn't they beg for help? If you make a mess of your state and require a bail-out, does someone owe it to you? Why? Everyone else takes care of their business. Why should people who are responsible be expected to care for those who are not?

The same way a hurricane hits Florida or somewhere along the coast and evacuations are needed, no one needs to beg to be evacuated and it is strange that you would even say that they needed to beg for help like they were some kind of panhandlers, unless that is what you think. When a tragedy occurs, whether it is an act of God or an act of War, it is the government's responsibility to step in and restore order.

I dont' know about Florida, but I do know when the CA fires were raging, people were on the TV saying "I don't know what we're going to do. I just hope someone will help." NOLA is a panhandler. They blew money for thirty years on things other than those levees... that's their problem... I didn't tell you to elect Landrieu.

Yeah, it's the gov's job to restore order. However, when it's your own fault, decent people would come with hat in hand to ask for it... not a sense of entitlement.

For how some of those people were treated, Katrina was a disgrace. Downing the people that experienced this tragedy is a tragedy in itself. The same way you expect the government to protect you in times of war, the same way you expect the government to have some kind of response to human tragedy on a mass scale, is the same way these people were probably feeling. It has nothing, and I stress nothing to do with some kind of perceived slave mentality.

I don't know where you get that stuff from, but I'm telling you that LA had thirty years neglecting their responsibility because they thought their magnanimous slave owner was going to fix their problems.

That is something that people want to place on Blacks and it does not exist. Do not equate a Congressman or Senator to the people who suffered this. Yes, they put the people in office to represent them but they also placed the President of the US in office to represent them.

How about a nice taste of reality? The president isn't responsible for what's happening at the edge of your city. He has bigger things to wrory about. Your representatives are supposed to worry about stuff like that.

Your expectations are outlandish. You elect a team of politicians from mayor to Congress and each and everyone fails, but you expect the president to be able to overcome your incompetent team? Come on. That's ridiculous.

No one expects the government to take care of them on a daily basis but when tragedy occurs the government is supposed to be there. There is a reason that we pay taxes, unless you feel that these people were not paying taxes, and I would think that a government response to a tragedy is one of those reasons.

Yes, the gov should be there... but your elected officials are supposed to be there before bad times hit. This is called personal responsibility.

Taxes? Friend, NOLA's taxes were going toward million dollar parks while those levees were leaking... and it was NOLA's representatives that were choosing parks over levees.

That is a highly offensive statement. Maybe the 150 to 300 Black people that you know so well have that mentality but I have never met one that [has a slave mentality]

Brother, you're singing it right now. It's your perspective on the role of government, don't you get it? You refuse to accept that the people who were there are personally responsible for it... Instead, you look up to the president and say "You failed us..."

Government always failed. They went wrong just not realizing that.

I don't know if you are even aware of how offensive that statement is to people, and I would think it is offensive to people regardless of their race.

I suggest you grow some thicker skin and a more open mind.

In addition, the onlookers that I talked to, White and Black alike, were disturbed by the tragedy and the government's response. I can't recall one ever talking about the Congressmen that represented New Orleans.

Yeah, the education system sucks all around... Just because everyone's calling blue "green" doesn't mean it's green.

Clarence Thomas is a whole other issue. Dislike for him was or is due to his thought process but that is not the subject here.

Processes? He's too logical?

Thank you for the lesson but it is already something that is fairly well known. Utilizing the term Uncle Tom is just utilizing a term. It is not significant but if you really want to break it down it has nothing to do with the man not talking. It has to do with his subservient attitude towards his masters. That is what the term is based on, his subservient attitude.

So I've heard... and that feeds into the self-destructive slave culture also... the tendency to tear down those that are redeemed... the naive view of the role he was in... and, ultimately, the self-hate implied when a person takes a moment to recognize that what's left of the entire race are descendant of those who were quite cooperative.

Crooked views... it's a mess.

BTW, what difference does it make how many pages the book is. 300, 400, 500 or 1000 pages. A book is a book that if you want to read it and enjoy it you will. I regularly read novels over 1000 pages because I enjoy the books. A 300 page book would be a breeze to read, if it was enjoyable. Maybe the Blacks that did not read Uncle Tom's Cabin were not interested in it.

Just seems to me if a person is going to pretend to know what they're talking about-- as is presented when the term is used-- they'd do their due diligence.

The same way that I cannot speak on the White culture, please do not generalize the Black culture.

Why don't you ask something equally reasonable like spend my life with a hand tied behind my back? Get real. We use generalizations. It's part of being human... what you're really asking me is to suppress views that you experience to be negative.

The bigger question is what dependencies do you have that you have taken for granted as if you are entitled to it?

Life, natural liberty and the pursuit of happiness... the same thing you're entitled to.

What has the government done for your race or culture that have put you in the position that you are in today?

I don't know. However, I'd be curious to know how you seperate the government and people. Where, in a case like NOLA, it's clearly obvious that the people failed elect adequate representation, it seems that if my rep acted in a way that prompted the government to act, then it's the people doing it.

I don't understand why you'd seperate the two.

The Black culture is not dependent on some kind of fictitious slave master. For you to even utilize that type of symbolism is strange.

I think the evidence is there that a segment does.

Black people do not sit around and think about slavery

Never said they did. The problem is the opinions you carry about the role of government in your life... You don't think of the government as a slave owner, but you position it so that you become a slave... However, you don't think in terms of being slave... only in terms of being powerless... when that's not the case.

We look forward to the future but we remember the past.

Let me get this straight: You'll tell me that blacks are very diverse... but then speak of them as a single unit. Why the contradiction?

Even when the conversation is not about it, like this one wasn't, slavery is brought into the picture.

Maybe if you stopped getting worked up over the word slave and listened to the point about giving power to the government, you'd understand what I'm saying.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by LLLL98

I really don't know what you are trying to prove aside from:

you = correct & rational
me = wrong & irrational (oh and "liberal-minded" ?)

I was thinking the same thing about you.

I have spent the day with my Grandfather and his buddy ( black man ) while they laugh and talk and then my Grandad and I get in the car and it's N word this, N word that, but he's friends with that black guy, because that black guy is okay. Racist.

I don't see the connection between the n-word and racism. Is Chris Rock a racist?... You'll find plenty that say yes. It's nuts.

I get the impression that you are a last word kind of guy, so have it, really.

I like to argue... but I like people to make sense to me... If you're going to say I'm mistaken, I'd like to be convinced. If you prove me wrong, I'm appreciative that you stopped me from looking foolish.

Thanks for the last word.

[414Milwaukee]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

I'll help you out. You're trying to argue against generalizations and perceptions. The logical course of that argument is to question reality.

How do you know anyone else exists? Prove that and then we'll know whether or not my perceptions are valid. (Hint: Your argument is generally used intellectually dishonestly to combat undesirable conclusions. Rather than responding to the actual argument, you indirectly attack the person's capacity to draw conclusions from their experiences... )

(Edit: The argument you're using is also the one used against successful blacks who put responsibility on individuals. It's effective because, theoretically, no one can know anything about anything.)

I wasnt attacking your experience i was just asking if you were there to experience the experience
you cant watch something on the news and call it experience and since you have experience you must live in NO or around the area to experience it right
because the definition of experience is...
- something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through
-the act or process of directly perceiving events or reality

you still didnt answer the question or maybe im slow and didnt see the answer but
of the black people that you know including your wife they all think like your described quote below

I think most black people are indirectly angry over slavery... However, it's not expressed like that. The anger is expressed as "whites don't accept us" or "whites are racist." However, what they're effectively saying is "whites don't accept my slave culture."

The average black, IMO, refuses to integrate into America unless it's on their terms. So, the anger is because of something besides slavery. However, the reason for the lack of acceptance is, in a sense, slavery.

Earlier you said "I dont know any black people that think like that Not my block, school, or family think like that." What's the relevance of that?

The relevence is i live in a black neighborhood i go to a black school and my families black and nobody i know thinks in the slavemaster whatever you call it mentality and thats a lot more black people than your 300

That is a highly offensive statement. Maybe the 150 to 300 Black people that you know so well have that mentality but I have never met one that does.

-drkman

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by 414Milwaukee

I wasnt attacking your experience i was just asking if you were there to experience the experience you cant watch something on the news and call it experience and since you have experience you must live in NO or around the area to experience it right because the definition of experience is... something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through the act or process of directly perceiving events or reality

It's not your intent to attack (not a statement about aggression) the experience, but that's what it is... It's an argument that leads to nothing... It's a logical game.

You don't need to live in NO to recognize the behavior on television of the people shown. You see someone doing something there and you tie it to things you've seen before... in this way it's "experience".

Honestly, I'm not saying this to be mean: It's a dirtball game you're playing. If you wanted to argue the point, you'd say "well I don't believe there's anything wrong with them demanding because of X, Y and Z." Instead you're saying "you don't know me" "how do you think you know me."

you still didnt answer the question or maybe im slow and didnt see the answer but

It's a non-question. It just doesn't matter. What do you want? A percentage? It's the same game. If there wasn't a sufficient percentage why would I say it? You're picking at something implied as if you're going to uncover something... There's nothing there.

The relevence is i live in a black neighborhood i go to a black school and my families black and nobody i know thinks in the slavemaster whatever you call it mentality and thats a lot more black people than your 300

Exactly. Your personal experience, whether 300 or 1,000 is what matters. However, you're arguing the position that it doesn't... as if by one-upping on the number is going to make a difference.

You know in your heart that the people you know mean something and you can draw conclusions from that. However, you're also trying to attack the base I draw my conclusions from.

Get over the word slave and listen to what's being said.

[414Milwaukee]

forget it im done im gonna go play some basketball

[uglyblackjohn]

What was the original question- " why do black people like fried chicken"? Why does every question in these forums on race end up trying to solve every question on race?

No -I'm not affraid of Black men. I am also one.
1000 makes good points. I have a lot of rental houses here in Texas. A lot of refugees from NOLA came here after Katrina. I let several families live in my houses rent free until Rita hit us. These same families collected from two hurricaines. I came back early to make repairs so that all of my tenants would have a place to live. Because I came back early, I didn't receive any goverment assistance. The same tenats -who lived rent free_ just sat on their porches (after extended hotel stays- paid for by the US government) and watched me work. Free rent and you can't help someone who's trying to help you?
Ater this experience, I tore down those houses ( only after helping the tenants find new housing- again, usualy paid for by the US government) and planted a comunity farm- which the people faught over who's okra was who's(I bought all of the initial plants). No slave-master mentality? I've been called "Uncle Tom" more than I've been called "N*****", even though I do more for these same people than they do for themselves.
If one helps someone too much, one robs that person of the character that goes along with that accomplishment. The race issue isn't so much of a Black/White problem as it is a Black problem.
1000, I lived in the hood until I was 8-by the country club until I was 14-then back to the hood until 17. Drugs, prostitution,gangs,ignorance and poverty were my freinds and neighbors. The thing is; ignorant people don't know that they're ignorant. Does Black-America have a problem with the deficient predominant black/ghetto mind set? Yes. Not evrey Black thinks the same but there are far too many who keep these stereotypes all too real.
Am I affraid of Black men... no, I'm more affraid for them.

[18Montclair]

No.

I date them.