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You want it to stop. You might want world peace and I might want a supermodel but good luck.
I hardly ever talk about women. I'm only doing it because of all the sexual harassment hysteria going on right now. Plenty of men have been mistreated, devastated by women and could complain as the day is long about how society and women are unfair to them, and some do. No one cares about men's problems or accepts their complaining, so I'm just being equal.
I'm not going to just give up because it isn't easy, even small changes are helpful to the situation. You may not be able to get a supermodel but unless you refuse to accept anyone else, I'm sure there are plenty of attractive girls nearby to go for. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Most people actually do care about men's problems. Plenty of men do spend time talking about their concerns and they are treated with respect. I've read a number of threads and posts, both here and in other forums about various issues men have faced. These men were not ignored or insulted. They were listened to and many women responded with compassion and attempts to help.
One issue that affects men that most don't talk about is rape, whether by a woman or man. Women don't discount male victims, sometimes other men do but that is not the fault of women. I read a thread in another forum about men who were raped by women. Those who posted were struggling with their experiences. Everyone responded with the same respect they would show to a female victim. There was openess and understanding from both men and women.
There seems to be a lot of controversy around this issue. Although there is little debate that women are not responsible for sexual assaults, do they have a duty to protect themselves? If so, how? Avoiding being alone? Not drinking to excess, avoiding skimpy clothing, what? Many individuals of both genders have expressed this opinion. And if she doesn't protect herself in whatever way is deemed necessary or fitting, is the perpetrator less at fault if an assault happens?
Why would it be a duty to protect yourself? Of course the perpetrator would not be less at fault. If I shot my attacker, would he be less at fault. Heck no. I think the only duty would be to report it. It might stop others from being assaulted.
Why do we have 100 threads on this and not any on how we need to be changing men's behaviors? How to raise sons not to rape instead of women to not life live for fear of being raped?
Perhaps it is because most of the posters here are raising their son's (in my case, stepsons) to respect ALL people equally. Furthermore, maybe many here lead by example as I do in the treatment of my wife, daughter and all women I come in contact with.
It appears to me that the real discussion we should be having is why some (certainly not me) are teaching their daughters not to report sexual abuse immediately. Assuming for a moment that Dr. Ford's accusations are true, reporting may have prevented sexual abuse of Deborah Ramirez and at minimum, prevented Brett Kavanaugh from participating in the multiple gang-rape parties that Julie Swetnick attended (by her own admission).
We have arrived at a maddening paradox where treating women equally is expected, but expecting equality is sexist.
Perhaps it is because most of the posters here are raising their son's (in my case, stepsons) to respect ALL people equally. Furthermore, maybe many here lead by example as I do in the treatment of my wife, daughter and all women I come in contact with.
It appears to me that the real discussion we should be having is why some (certainly not me) are teaching their daughters not to report sexual abuse immediately. Assuming for a moment that Dr. Ford's accusations are true, reporting may have prevented sexual abuse of Deborah Ramirez and at minimum, prevented Brett Kavanaugh from participating in the multiple gang-rape parties that Julie Swetnick attended (by her own admission).
We have arrived at a maddening paradox where treating women equally is expected, but expecting equality is sexist.
Nobody is teaching their daughters not to report. Were you sexually assaulted in the 80s? I was, and I told no one, not even my best friend and certainly not my parents. He was a respected kid, not someone anybody would have believed to be a rapist back then. If had experienced this you might have a modicum of understanding why one would not report back them. Even today, we have comment after comment of terror for son's. Their daughters are apparently just the lying ******* out to ruin lives. Over and over the assumption is that women lie and make up rapes constantly and their word is meaningless.
The President of the US mocked a woman claiming to have experienced sexual assault. Daughters everywhere saw that. Daughters everywhere have heard that women lie when it's convenient. One can tell their daughter she could come to them, but kids watch our actions not words. Many people's daughters will struggle to tell their parents and probably won't unless they somehow have proof. There are many reasons women don't report. The biggest reason can be viewed all over this forum. Many women are not believed at all, let alone automatically as many keep implying. Sexual assault affects people in different ways. Judgeing a woman who doesn't report immediately is easy to do, but it isn't going to help matters to blame a victim for any subsequent victims.
This is a commentary by a prosecutor who initially had trouble understanding why sexual asaault victims would wait to report. After spending time face to face with victims he began to understand. Sexual assault is not like other crimes, there are so many myths and cultural assumptions around sex and rape that make it more difficult to report.
It's a commentary, not proof of anything but it might give some a little insight if they are actually open to any. Like it or not, anything involving sex is complicated dramatically. Everyone is individual in their comfort level. It can depend on culture, religion, and various other aspects of a person. Some women may have no trouble saying penis or vagina, other women would rather die than say those words out loud, and, in fact may never have said them before.
While the questions are fair, it is not honest to apply the same demands of logic to a sexual assault victim that we do to victims of robbery or credit card fraud. It isn’t that logic fails to apply, it’s that other factors change the equation and so the answer is different.
Victims of other crimes do not have to use the words penis, vagina and intercourse to describe what happened to them. And, if you were uncomfortable reading those words in the privacy of your home, imagine the anguish of using the same words to describe your rape to a stranger.
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They also don't have to get naked in front of strangers, be photographed head to toe, have an invasive exam, have their pubic hair combed and all the other parts of a rape kit. All that after being assaulted. For most women after an assault there is a desperate need to take a shower and wash the perpetrator away. It requires an amazing degree self control to fight this need and walk around with the assailant's fluids still on you, answer endless questions from someone you know is questioning and probably judging you, and wait for an rape kit to be performed.
There seems to be a lot of controversy around this issue. Although there is little debate that women are not responsible for sexual assaults, do they have a duty to protect themselves? If so, how? Avoiding being alone? Not drinking to excess, avoiding skimpy clothing, what? Many individuals of both genders have expressed this opinion. And if she doesn't protect herself in whatever way is deemed necessary or fitting, is the perpetrator less at fault if an assault happens?
The hysteria? How about the fact that within the past few years we've discovered a LOT of men abusing their power by doing things sexual in nature to women? That's fact - that's not hysteria - and no woman should have to put up with it.
You keep talking about "feminist", which as someone else already pointed out should be feminists with an s when used in that context, when this is not a feminist issue.
But again, you try to minimize and mock the whole thing using words like hysteria, victimizing innocent men, and stating sexual assault isn't as common as feminist (sic) make it out to be.
You must not be close to any females or you wouldn't be this clueless.
I think in a lot of those cases the women engaged in a consensual exchange. The men wanted sexual relations and the females wanted to further their career. Then after the women got what they wanted they jumped on the #MeToo bandwagon to get revenge and seek status in victimhood and even millions of dollars more in pay out, yay..
Just like with the FoxNews and other programming those airheads were there because they were pretty and sexy, not because they had any other real skills. They got millions in pay offs, and all of good male anchors were kicked out. I don't think any of that should've happened.
I have sexual interest in my boyfriend. Sometimes, I don't want to have sex. He does not rape me, because he's not a rapist.
I have previously had sexual interest in dates but was not ready for sex. They stopped when I told them to, because they were not rapists.
I had no sexual interest in the boy I was tutoring. I believed his parents were home. They were not. He raped me, because he is a rapist.
If someone tells you no, it means no. If you ignore someone saying no, you are a rapist.
Ditto. When I was 16, I put myself in a very potentially dangerous situation: at a party, sharing a joint, I went in to a bedroom alone with a young man. He was older, 22 or so; I don’t know because I just met him the day before. When I first went upstairs with him, I really thought I was DTF, but somewhere between second and third base, I knew I just wasn’t ready to have my first consensual sexual experience with a near stranger, so I said I wanted to stop. And you know what he did? He stopped. He didn’t push any further or act like I at least owed him a handy for his troubles.
Now, regardless of my stupidity or and character flaws he may have had to be grown man taking a 16 year old to bed, I am grateful for that experience because it gave me back my sense of autonomy; my right to say no and have that respected. Of course, less than an hour later he was banging someone else, but the point is, he stopped when I asked him to; he didn’t act like he was entitled to sex because we were almost at the point of no return. That may seem trivial, but as someone who was raped at 9-years-old, I wasn’t entirely sure I had the right to say no and not expect to be forced. If he hadn’t stopped, I’m not sure I would have thought I had the right to report it, which is why his stopping was such a profound moment for me.
Last edited by Ginge McFantaPants; 10-07-2018 at 08:33 PM..
Perhaps it is because most of the posters here are raising their son's (in my case, stepsons) to respect ALL people equally. Furthermore, maybe many here lead by example as I do in the treatment of my wife, daughter and all women I come in contact with.
It appears to me that the real discussion we should be having is why some (certainly not me) are teaching their daughters not to report sexual abuse immediately. Assuming for a moment that Dr. Ford's accusations are true, reporting may have prevented sexual abuse of Deborah Ramirez and at minimum, prevented Brett Kavanaugh from participating in the multiple gang-rape parties that Julie Swetnick attended (by her own admission).
Swetnick was an adult at the time of those parties. I believe she committed a crime by not reporting them. Again that's state-sensitive and may or may not be the law in the state where the parties occurred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Jasper
We have arrived at a maddening paradox where treating women equally is expected, but expecting equality is sexist.
This is, as GWB said, the "soft bigotry of low expectations.
There seems to be a lot of controversy around this issue. Although there is little debate that women are not responsible for sexual assaults, do they have a duty to protect themselves? If so, how? Avoiding being alone? Not drinking to excess, avoiding skimpy clothing, what? Many individuals of both genders have expressed this opinion. And if she doesn't protect herself in whatever way is deemed necessary or fitting, is the perpetrator less at fault if an assault happens?
The involuntary nature of the crime is an essential element. The duty is to report promptly. There is no duty to endanger oneself.
Maybe men should have a duty NOT to assault women.
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