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Old 10-18-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,333,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Liberals don't believe in equal outcomes; what we do find troubling is students who are naturally gifted not making productive use of their talents.
In other words: "From each according to his ability, and to each according to his needs."

Now where have we heard that before?
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:03 AM
 
46,951 posts, read 25,984,404 times
Reputation: 29441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
If equality is the foundational value of the left from which its ideology flows, how does one tackle the fact that disparity is built into our species?
Equality of opportunity, not of outcome. And you seruiously overestimate the value of intelligence as an indicator of success.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:11 AM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,381,194 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Leftists like to trumpet themselves as the party of science.

Science doesn't pick sides however. It just is. (A statement, which is controversial to many who believe everything is contingent on perception and identity.)

If you wish to dispel fantasies and illusions, be prepared to have your own fantasies dispelled.

The harsh truth is that all people are not created equal. The most important human trait is general intelligence, which is normally distributed. This produces class within complex societies. Intelligence is detectable by potential mates, so given this and its adaptive benefits, intelligence is being selected for. Or in other words, less intelligence is being selected against. About 70-80% of general intelligence is genetic.

If equality is the foundational value of the left from which its ideology flows, how does one tackle the fact that disparity is built into our species?

If you claim something along the lines of, "because we are civilized and we can do better," is that not an imposition of contrived values on society? How is it different from religion which springs from the same impulse? If there is no evidence of human equality in nature, why do you aspire to it? Can you criticize the religious person for aspiring to other imaginary values?

Or is your belief system merely a front for self-interest, as is the case with many religious people?
Ask the left about vaccines, fracking, 'natural' toothpaste, Roundup, GMOs, etc. Their views and beliefs do not line up with the science on many issues.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:13 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,252,102 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Equality of opportunity, not of outcome. And you seruiously overestimate the value of intelligence as an indicator of success.
The left is shifting toward equality of outcome; it's getting harder to deny this every year.

Equality of opportunity is a workable compromise, which the left is abandoning.

This is an aside from the OP, which is really about the left's claims to scientific legitimacy versus the right.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:24 AM
 
4,559 posts, read 1,436,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The left is definitely not a party of science if and when science goes against their goals. Leftist want to make everyone within groups equally subpar where the difference spread is even greater than between groups. So it's not surprising they seek to make groups "equal" to each other.
Umm the equality part is actually equal access.
Therez a diff.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:29 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,252,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by what'd i miss View Post
Umm the equality part is actually equal access.
Therez a diff.
Taken to an extreme - communism - equality is very much about outcomes for the left.

It's all a matter of how much power they wield.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:40 AM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,784,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Value is a norm. Adaptability is not.

And the winners (survivors) write the history books.
Some social norms of equality are "scientifically" better for society, even if they're not "scientific" themselves. It's the difference between Sweden and Saudi Arabia.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:41 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 2,399,995 times
Reputation: 2727
Honestly, this thread is deep in thinking to the point that it might belong more in the Science and Technology or Philosophy sections of the C-D forum.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:27 PM
 
46,951 posts, read 25,984,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
The left is shifting toward equality of outcome; it's getting harder to deny this every year.
That's a point of view, certainly.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,459 posts, read 7,087,596 times
Reputation: 11700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Equality of opportunity, not of outcome. And you seruiously overestimate the value of intelligence as an indicator of success.


How do you guarantee complete equality of opportunity without crippling some in order to boost others?
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