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Old 09-23-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Midwest America
32 posts, read 11,814 times
Reputation: 14

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I have a question that I hope will reach people who are either Native American or personally know someone who is. I'm a Caucasian female. My ancestors, prior to immigrating to America, are most recently from western Europe. I have no blood connections to any Native American tribe or nation. Around the country, whether in Walmarts or gift shops, mass produced or hand-made, there are clothing, jewelry, decor, etc. inspired by various Native American art-forms. I have long been drawn to Native American designs and products, whether it's a Thunderbird shirt, feather earrings, or moccasins. In the past few years, I have become....uncomfortable owning or wearing anything that is overtly Native American in design. I don't want to needlessly alienate anyone wearing or owning something that belongs to another culture if it is considered disrespectful to do so. So, in deference to common decency, I'm asking for someone to either confirm that is either wrong and disrespectful or perfectly okay to own something, as a Caucasian, that is inspired by Native American art, and/or was made and sold by a Native American.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:59 PM
 
5,479 posts, read 2,122,053 times
Reputation: 8109
This is what's wrong now-a-days!


Ever hear that America is a melting pot?
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:44 PM
 
Location: WY
6,262 posts, read 5,073,096 times
Reputation: 7999
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotdotdashdashdot View Post
I have a question that I hope will reach people who are either Native American or personally know someone who is. I'm a Caucasian female. My ancestors, prior to immigrating to America, are most recently from western Europe. I have no blood connections to any Native American tribe or nation. Around the country, whether in Walmarts or gift shops, mass produced or hand-made, there are clothing, jewelry, decor, etc. inspired by various Native American art-forms. I have long been drawn to Native American designs and products, whether it's a Thunderbird shirt, feather earrings, or moccasins. In the past few years, I have become....uncomfortable owning or wearing anything that is overtly Native American in design. I don't want to needlessly alienate anyone wearing or owning something that belongs to another culture if it is considered disrespectful to do so. So, in deference to common decency, I'm asking for someone to either confirm that is either wrong and disrespectful or perfectly okay to own something, as a Caucasian, that is inspired by Native American art, and/or was made and sold by a Native American.
Norwegian born, naturalized American citizen and woman here. Get over yourself. It's a free country. Own whatever the hell you want to.

You're welcome.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:52 PM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,905,591 times
Reputation: 22689
If you purchase genuine items produced by members of Indian tribes, rather than look-alike items, you will assist them, rather than some unknown factory worker with no Indian connection.

If American Indians only sold their wares to one another, they'd lose most of their customers. My mother had a beautiful silver and turquoise bracelet which
she purchased on the Navajo reservation during a visit when she was a young woman, 80-odd years ago now. It was made to be sold, though it includes traditional Indian motifs and materials. I have traditional Cherokee woodcarvings, pottery and baskets - again, made to be sold.

If you yourself are crafty and want to incorporate Indian designs that you admire into your own work, that's okay.

One of my cousins was very talented in Plains-Indian style leatherwork, and often wore a beautifully made fringed and beaded leather vest he'd made for himself. No Indian background at all, as far as he knew, nor did he try to pass for Indian. He just liked the style and was a gifted craftsman.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,219 posts, read 22,380,933 times
Reputation: 23858
This is a hard question to answer.

I come from an Idaho ranch, and have worn some native American items all my life. I buy my items from the local reservation, and my lifetime experience living close to my local tribe has given me a good idea of what they consider to be cultural appropriation and what's not.

I may see a native American wearing the same cowboy shirt I'm wearing with the same native designs on it in a different color the next time I visit the rez. He won't be offended by my fine taste in shirts, and neither will I.

But in another place, say Virginia, it's different. Here's a story. It's my best answer to your question.

My Dad was a rancher all his life. He grew up wearing western wear, a cowboy hat, boots, and all the rest of it, and wore it all his life.

When he became a prominent livestock breeder, he was asked to join an advisory committee that reported to the Secretary of Agriculture once a year on the livestock industry. He served on the committee for many years, and reported to many Secretaries and Senators.

And since he was a cowboy, he always wore his best western suit, best boots and best hat to Washington D.C. to the meetings. He felt as out of place wearing a pair of flat shoes as you would feel wearing boots and a cowboy hat every day, and he never owned a business suit in his life.

I was in transit in Norfolk, Va. while in the Navy, waiting for my ship to come in when he went to D.C. one year, and he called, asking if I could get some leave to see him if he came to Norfolk on his way home.
I could, so I caught a bus to the airport, met him, and we spent the weekend together before he flew back to Idaho.

Since I had no car, we had to take the bus wherever we went, and my Dad got a lot of funny looks. it made him very self-conscious, but I said not to worry about it. He didn't look bad- just unusual. So he quit worrying. We spent a wonderful day together, and I didn't get to see him again for 2 years, so it's a good memory.

When we went back to the airport for his flight back, we had time to enjoy a breakfast together at the terminal restaurant.

The waitress asked Dad politely if he was a country singer. He said he wasn't. He was just a cowboy.

She nodded. When she came back with the food, she asked him politely if he had been in the movies.

Since he actually had been an extra in a couple of them a few times, he said so, but that he wasn't famous. He was just a working cowboy who picked up a little extra work in Jackson Hole.

She nodded again. When she brought the bill, she asked for his autograph. We laughed, but he gave one to her.

That's the power of cultural image. When it's respected, it's all fine. When it isn't, feelings are hurt.

Wear something from another culture that is permissible by that culture, and wear it the right way, and no offense is taken. It's an expression of admiration then.

But trash it up by trying to make it look cute, or attempt to make it appear amusing, and it will offend. The difference doesn't take much to understand.

And there are always going to be some people who think you are appropriating something that's not yours, not matter if it is or not.
My Dad was no phony, but some of the bus riders thought he was. The waitress did not think he was, and he knew the difference.

The genuine article always does. But you don't have to be a cowboy to wear the hat. Just don't wear it like a dude.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:20 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,881,487 times
Reputation: 6556
American Indians wear and use all things from white Western culture, so a white person has carte blanche to take anything they want from American Indian culture. Anyone saying you can't or spinning it into a negative thing is just peddling an anti-white notion.

Could you imagine someone telling a non-white person they can't wear western clothing or own or use anything else from white culture etc?
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,219 posts, read 22,380,933 times
Reputation: 23858
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
American Indians wear and use all things from white Western culture, so a white person has carte blanche to take anything they want from American Indian culture. Anyone saying you can't or spinning it into a negative thing is just peddling an anti-white notion.

Could you imagine someone telling a non-white person they can't wear western clothing or own or use anything else from white culture etc?
That all depends on the item.

A war bonnet is a powerful symbol of leadership that is earned through respect. Wearing a war bonnet without earning that respect is disrespecting both the symbol and the people the symbol came from.

A judge will not be happy to see some offender walk into his courtroom wearing a bright fuschia pink legal robe.

Every culture has its own sacred objects and ceremonies that demand respect from everyone. Disrespecting someone's religion is a sure way to make offense.

So while what you say is true, it cannot be generalized. You won't ever be able to wear some apparel without causing a negative opinion of you, but there is always much apparel that will cause no offense at all.

That's just as true with the white man as it is with anyone else. And that's why so many fights begin over symbols.
We all have some understanding as to what is offensive or not, and if we intentionally seek offense, we will surely find it.

But if we are only ignorant, and do not intend an offense, and display that we mean none, others know that too.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Midwest America
32 posts, read 11,814 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
This is a hard question to answer.

I come from an Idaho ranch, and have worn some native American items all my life. I buy my items from the local reservation, and my lifetime experience living close to my local tribe has given me a good idea of what they consider to be cultural appropriation and what's not.

I may see a native American wearing the same cowboy shirt I'm wearing with the same native designs on it in a different color the next time I visit the rez. He won't be offended by my fine taste in shirts, and neither will I.

But in another place, say Virginia, it's different. Here's a story. It's my best answer to your question.

My Dad was a rancher all his life. He grew up wearing western wear, a cowboy hat, boots, and all the rest of it, and wore it all his life.

When he became a prominent livestock breeder, he was asked to join an advisory committee that reported to the Secretary of Agriculture once a year on the livestock industry. He served on the committee for many years, and reported to many Secretaries and Senators.

And since he was a cowboy, he always wore his best western suit, best boots and best hat to Washington D.C. to the meetings. He felt as out of place wearing a pair of flat shoes as you would feel wearing boots and a cowboy hat every day, and he never owned a business suit in his life.

I was in transit in Norfolk, Va. while in the Navy, waiting for my ship to come in when he went to D.C. one year, and he called, asking if I could get some leave to see him if he came to Norfolk on his way home.
I could, so I caught a bus to the airport, met him, and we spent the weekend together before he flew back to Idaho.

Since I had no car, we had to take the bus wherever we went, and my Dad got a lot of funny looks. it made him very self-conscious, but I said not to worry about it. He didn't look bad- just unusual. So he quit worrying. We spent a wonderful day together, and I didn't get to see him again for 2 years, so it's a good memory.

When we went back to the airport for his flight back, we had time to enjoy a breakfast together at the terminal restaurant.

The waitress asked Dad politely if he was a country singer. He said he wasn't. He was just a cowboy.

She nodded. When she came back with the food, she asked him politely if he had been in the movies.

Since he actually had been an extra in a couple of them a few times, he said so, but that he wasn't famous. He was just a working cowboy who picked up a little extra work in Jackson Hole.

She nodded again. When she brought the bill, she asked for his autograph. We laughed, but he gave one to her.

That's the power of cultural image. When it's respected, it's all fine. When it isn't, feelings are hurt.

Wear something from another culture that is permissible by that culture, and wear it the right way, and no offense is taken. It's an expression of admiration then.

But trash it up by trying to make it look cute, or attempt to make it appear amusing, and it will offend. The difference doesn't take much to understand.

And there are always going to be some people who think you are appropriating something that's not yours, not matter if it is or not.
My Dad was no phony, but some of the bus riders thought he was. The waitress did not think he was, and he knew the difference.

The genuine article always does. But you don't have to be a cowboy to wear the hat. Just don't wear it like a dude.
Thank you, banjomike, for taking the time to answer. I greatly appreciate your insight.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Midwest America
32 posts, read 11,814 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
That all depends on the item.

A war bonnet is a powerful symbol of leadership that is earned through respect. Wearing a war bonnet without earning that respect is disrespecting both the symbol and the people the symbol came from.

A judge will not be happy to see some offender walk into his courtroom wearing a bright fuschia pink legal robe.

Every culture has its own sacred objects and ceremonies that demand respect from everyone. Disrespecting someone's religion is a sure way to make offense.

So while what you say is true, it cannot be generalized. You won't ever be able to wear some apparel without causing a negative opinion of you, but there is always much apparel that will cause no offense at all.

That's just as true with the white man as it is with anyone else. And that's why so many fights begin over symbols.
We all have some understanding as to what is offensive or not, and if we intentionally seek offense, we will surely find it.

But if we are only ignorant, and do not intend an offense, and display that we mean none, others know that too.
YES! This is the sort of response I was hoping for when I posted. THANK YOU.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:56 AM
 
4,660 posts, read 4,123,803 times
Reputation: 9012
I understand that some Native Americans fly on airplanes, despite the fact that they were invented by white people. Some even watch televisions, and a few have had their lives saved by antibiotics. One or two might have given up their teepees for western houses with electricity and indoor plumbing.

I think they can trade us the right to where beads in return.
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