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Old 10-28-2018, 12:18 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,521 posts, read 44,230,479 times
Reputation: 13496

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Read the posts at gab,ai, it is a right wing jew-hating and Trump-loving cesspool.
The killer is anti-Trump. What do you not get about that?

 
Old 10-28-2018, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,387,387 times
Reputation: 8599
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
The killer is anti-Trump. What do you not get about that?
I'm describing the posts at Gab.ai.. what do you not get about that?
 
Old 10-28-2018, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,716,899 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The guy posts on Facebook as well. Let's all destroy Facebook immediately!!

Shutting people up only makes extremists more extreme. It proves that all the crazy conspiracies in their heads are completely real, at least that's how they'll see it. They will reconvene somewhere quietly, feeling desperate. The odds of them engaging in outright terrorism increases. Twitter, Facebook and your Silicon Valley big corporations have decided to censor speech they believe to be dangerous. They've helped cause these sorts of things.

Better solution: Free speech absolutism. When some Jew-hating, black-hating, white nationalist guy says a bunch of crap, if he's saying it in the public square of modern times -- Twitter and Facebook, etc. -- then sane people will push back. Kick him out of the public square and he's only hearing the words of those who think exactly like he does.
OK so I can go yell fire in a public place then which will create a panic under absolutism? What about make a threat on a politician's life? What if I say President ***hole rather than President Trump? Or what if Blacks start calling whites honkies again? What if someone threatens you?

Also let's remember something, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, 4Chan and even City-Data are all PRIVATE entities owned and operated by private companies rather than public utilities. They serve the public, but they aren't publicly owned at all. What you are talking about is publicizing private companies just because you don't like the fact that these companies and hosting websites can deem what material they want to ban due to controversial posts whether threatening, racist, sexist, etc.

I say that as someone who has been threatened on Facebook and seen others be called the r-word on various platforms and have seen and been called homosexual slurs on various platforms, that we can't do that. Absolutism is not what the founding fathers created the right to free speech for. They wanted you to speak out against the government and not be killed just for disagreements with it. That said, if you threatened democracy or a party or created a riot based on your speech, it was too far.
As for private entities, they can terminate an agreement with you at anytime just as you can do the same. City-data can permaban me for saying something mods disagree with as easily as I can opt-out because I disagree with a potential bias or lack of evenness in mod procedures. Facebook can delete me as easily as I can delete it and find something else to waste my time with.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 12:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,521 posts, read 44,230,479 times
Reputation: 13496
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
I'm describing the posts at Gab.ai.. what do you not get about that?
They didn't kill. The typical lefty anti-Trumper anti-Semite killed 11.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 12:36 AM
 
20,596 posts, read 8,363,020 times
Reputation: 14091
Wish I could take credit for this:

"Blaming Trump for the bomber is like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson"
 
Old 10-28-2018, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,682 posts, read 6,675,281 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
OK so I can go yell fire in a public place then which will create a panic under absolutism? What about make a threat on a politician's life? What if I say President ***hole rather than President Trump? Or what if Blacks start calling whites honkies again? What if someone threatens you?

Also let's remember something, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, 4Chan and even City-Data are all PRIVATE entities owned and operated by private companies rather than public utilities. They serve the public, but they aren't publicly owned at all. What you are talking about is publicizing private companies just because you don't like the fact that these companies and hosting websites can deem what material they want to ban due to controversial posts whether threatening, racist, sexist, etc.

I say that as someone who has been threatened on Facebook and seen others be called the r-word on various platforms and have seen and been called homosexual slurs on various platforms, that we can't do that. Absolutism is not what the founding fathers created the right to free speech for. They wanted you to speak out against the government and not be killed just for disagreements with it. That said, if you threatened democracy or a party or created a riot based on your speech, it was too far.
As for private entities, they can terminate an agreement with you at anytime just as you can do the same. City-data can permaban me for saying something mods disagree with as easily as I can opt-out because I disagree with a potential bias or lack of evenness in mod procedures. Facebook can delete me as easily as I can delete it and find something else to waste my time with.
Apparently you're a huge fan of censorship and authoritarianism. I can't really relate with that.

My opinion: The concept of Net Neutrality was good, but fell far short of what it should have been. Net Neutrality should have applied to the entire Internet. No company, no political party, no religion -- nothing gets preferential treatment. Coming on the internet, you can expect to get called names or encounter rude behavior quite often (though I must admit that I have no idea what the "r-word" is). It's the Internet. We all knew what we were getting ourselves into when we got onto it. But there is a very big problem with the people running it living in the living breathing ultra-Left echo chamber that is the Bay Area of California. For the most part, they go after people on the right, even those that aren't doing anything significantly wrong. Therein lies the problem. Today, the public square is the Internet. Web forums, Twitter, gab.ai, minds.com, Facebook, etc. That's where the public discourse is happening. So who can be trusted as fair arbiters of acceptable speech? Clearly, having a bunch of people who are massively biased to one side of the political spectrum isn't working out too well.

If making threats on the President's life was enough to get you kicked off of anything, half of the stars in Hollywood would have been kicked off of everything long ago. Good grief, how many Democrats have made threats against the guy?? It's a pretty damn big number.

But consider what your saying. Twitter and Facebook can ban anyone at anytime for any reason. Your solution? Go find your own place to talk. So a bunch of people did that, moving to Gab.ai and you're all for shutting down Gab.ai. See the problem there?

And by the way, Gab.ai is nothing like what you're saying it is. Yes anti-Semites are more common there since they've all been kicked off of Twitter and Facebook and all landed in the same place, but they are nothing even close to a majority. Gab.ai is pretty much just an upgraded, more functional version of Twitter that just happens to have planted their flag in the ground from the start in favor of free speech absolutism. That is their entire policy. "We will not censor you." If a few million Liberals wanna run onto the site and make themselves heard and dominate the platform, there's nothing stopping them. Have you ever been on Gab? Do you actually know what it's like?
 
Old 10-28-2018, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,716,899 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Apparently you're a huge fan of censorship and authoritarianism. I can't really relate with that.

My opinion: The concept of Net Neutrality was good, but fell far short of what it should have been. Net Neutrality applied to the entire Internet. No company, no political party, no religion -- nothing gets preferential treatment. Coming on the internet, you can expect to get called names or encounter rude behavior quite often (though I must admit that I have no idea what the "r-word" is). It's the Internet. We all knew what we were getting ourselves into when we go onto it. But there is a very big problem with the people running it living in the living breathing ultra-Left echo chamber that is the Bay Area of California. For the most part, they go after people on the right, even those that aren't doing anything significantly wrong. Therein lies the problem. Today, the public square is the Internet. Web forums, Twitter, gab.ai, minds.com, Facebook, etc. That's where the public discourse is happening. So who can be trusted as fair arbiters of acceptable speech? Clearly, having a bunch of people who are massively biased to one side of the political spectrum isn't working out too well.

If making threats on the President's life was enough to get you kicked off of anything, half of the stars in Hollywood would have been kicked off of everything long ago. Good grief, how many Democrats have made threats against the guy?? It's a pretty damn big number.

But consider what your saying. Twitter and Facebook can ban anyone at anytime for any reason. Your solution? Go find your own place to talk. So a bunch of people did that, moving to Gab.ai and you're all for shutting down Gab.ai. See the problem there?

And by the way, Gab.ai is nothing like what you're saying it is. Yes anti-Semites are more common there since they've all been kicked off of Twitter and Facebook, but they are nothing even close to a majority. Gab.ai is pretty much just an upgraded, more functional version of Twitter that just happens to have planted their flag in the ground from the start in favor of free speech absolutism. That is their entire policy. "We will not censor you." If a few million Liberals wanna run onto the site and make themselves heard, there's nothing stopping them. Have you ever been on Gab? Do you actually know what it's like?
I didn't see what you thought about starting an unnecessary panic or worse a riot by yelling fire in a crowded area. So I'll ask again, can I create a panic by yelling fire in crowded area under free speech absolutism?

What about threats, are they protected under free speech? I said that I got threatened on Facebook which is the truth. An ex's aunt threatened me after I broke up with her from a status update I made before I broke with the ex (mind you I posted the update prior to even thinking that breaking up was a possibility later on that night. She also casually threatened me when I announced my ex was my girlfriend...

I also have to ask why do you want to make private companies on the web public areas? Are you willing to trump their rights as a company to protect users from threats or hate speech just to protect free speech? The problem is like many rights, it has a limit and just because you have the right to say anything don't mean you can't be held accountable for what you say. Just look at how many people got fired for what they have said on Twitter based on firestorms from their words.

As for the r-word, it is a derogatory word for intellectual disability.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 01:27 AM
 
3,339 posts, read 1,251,171 times
Reputation: 3156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
Wish I could take credit for this:

"Blaming Trump for the bomber is like blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson"
Did Manson try to kill people on the Beatles hate list? Oh wait, they didn’t say lunatic deranged things like our current POTUS.

But nice try, lol.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,716,899 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
Did Manson try to kill people on the Beatles hate list? Oh wait, they didn’t say lunatic deranged things like our current POTUS.

But nice try, lol.
Well Lennon did say they were bigger than Jesus... Manson just read something weird from The White Album, in particular the song Helter Skelter.
 
Old 10-28-2018, 01:31 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,063 posts, read 1,055,176 times
Reputation: 4248
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
So you're saying he didn't do it and liberal foes plotted to bring him down because of his van?

Or you're saying he was in on the plot with liberals and is accepting the prospect of spending the next 50 years in jail?

And you're saying that somehow, liberal media, liberal power figures, and federal + local law enforcement across multiple jurisdictions have all perfectly colluded with ZERO leaks on this elaborate plot?

You haven't thought this through, have you?

There was a shooting in Pittsburgh today. Ten dead. At a synagogue done by a guy with a lot of anti-semitic statements online. They caught the shooter soon after, a lot faster than this bomber. Is that also too "neat" for you?

You'd rather believe the voices in your head than anything resembling actual corroborating evidence?

Ok.... Exhibit A why cons can't be taken seriously anymore.
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