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Old 11-02-2018, 10:34 AM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,411,191 times
Reputation: 6960

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
The "qualifier"? you got me there...the exact text is:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

That pretty much describes anyone who is born here and who is not a diplomat, I'm not sure how you can infer anything else from it.
Yeah you can by reading what the damn person who wrote the amendment said about it. He said it certainly doesn't apply to children of diplomats, visitors and illegal aliens.

 
Old 11-02-2018, 10:47 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
I keep asking the critical question, but no one seems to have an actual answer: In what way is an illegal immigrant less subject to US jurisdiction than a legal immigrant?
The relevant question is: For whom were exceptions made? There are two groups:

1) The US-born children of LPRs (Wong Kim Ark, 1898)
2) The US-born children of US aboriginal Tribe members (Indian Citizenship Act, 1924)

If you want an exception to also be made for illegal aliens' children to include them in 14th Amendment birthright citizenship, that will have to be done via either of those 2 methods: SCOTUS ruling or Federal Legislation.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
That decision does not differentiate between legal and illegal aliens. Domicile does not require legality.
The requirement is permanent domicile. Illegal aliens don't have a permanent domicile in the US. They aren't even supposed to be here at all, and can be deported at any time. That's not permanent.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 10:54 AM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,560,080 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Yeah you can by reading what the damn person who wrote the amendment said about it. He said it certainly doesn't apply to children of diplomats, visitors and illegal aliens.
A complete and total lie. Let's have a link to where Senator Howard said that it "certainly doesn't apply to visitors and illegal aliens". It doesn't exist.

I have read the entire debate of the amendment. There is no such statement contained anywhere in there. How unsupportable must your position be if you have to fabricate quotes in order to support it?
 
Old 11-02-2018, 10:59 AM
 
21,813 posts, read 9,363,245 times
Reputation: 19307
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
This is getting off topic, but it is also not necessarily true.
OH, it's true. 100% true.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,270,367 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The requirement is permanent domicile. Illegal aliens don't have a permanent domicile in the US. They aren't even supposed to be here at all, and can be deported at any time. That's not permanent.
Of course they do. Domicile is a matter of intent by the person involved. If they intend to stay permanently than the are domiciled there. And practically the vast majority does have permanent residence.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,468,247 times
Reputation: 11993
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
That pesky constitution may get in the way again.
Next thing you know the government will be wanting to limit free speech.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 11:08 AM
 
21,813 posts, read 9,363,245 times
Reputation: 19307
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
They pay something, but they are still a drain. Poor people tend to pay lower property taxes than rich people who live in more expensive homes.

The amount that poor people pay does not cover the cost of educating their children, which is subsidized by the property taxes the rich people pay.

We should have an obligation to pay for the education of poor people who actually belong here, but illegals have no right to be here. It is crazy that we are paying to educate their kids. Every illegal alien costs the town money. The more the town has, the higher the cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
This is getting off topic, but it is also not necessarily true.
Sorry, meant to quote both.

It's 100% true. I live in a nice area and we have a fair amount of illegals in our school system. Every form we fill out, there is a section for subsidization for low income people. It costs, on average, $11k to educate a kid in this country per year k-12. If you think we aren't paying that for illegals and even more because they get all those subsidies, you are either high or you are not paying attention.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 11:15 AM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,560,080 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Sorry, meant to quote both.

It's 100% true. I live in a nice area and we have a fair amount of illegals in our school system. Every form we fill out, there is a section for subsidization for low income people. It costs, on average, $11k to educate a kid in this country per year k-12. If you think we aren't paying that for illegals and even more because they get all those subsidies, you are either high or you are not paying attention.
Your school is funded by your property tax. Property taxes are paid directly by illegal immigrants (if they own a house) or indirectly by illegal immigrants (if they rent their home). Either way, they are paying for education. In the case where the illegal immigrant has no children, they are actually subsidizing your kids (as would a legal immigrant in the same situation).

You would have to be more specific about the subsidy to determine what the source of funding of that subsidy is, but you've already acknowledged that you're not complaining about illegal immigrants, but a subsidy for poor people.

But again, this is off-topic. Start a new thread and I will be happy to discuss.
 
Old 11-02-2018, 11:15 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Of course they do. Domicile is a matter of intent by the person involved. If they intend to stay permanently than the are domiciled there. And practically the vast majority does have permanent residence.
Their intent isn't relevant. What's relevant is if the Fed Gov permits an alien to permanently reside in the US. LPRs can. Illegal aliens aren't allowed to reside here permanently. They're not even supposed to be here at all. They can be deported at any time. That's why we get the ridiculous sob stories plastered all over the news when illegal alien parents are deported, leaving their crying children behind.
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