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I am not a Republican, but I am vehemently, zealously against socialized/national/single payer healthcare for the simple fact that it's collectivist tyranny. All the "well, what about" hypothetical individual examples cannot change the simple basic reality that for any collectivist scheme to function, it must first harm some number of individuals to some degree. The next set of steps is inefficient redistribution of that stolen money down to people who did not earn it, with percentages shaved off at every step to compensate thieves for their labor.
I oppose any scheme that seeks to enslave me to a collective desire. I oppose any system that declares initiations of force to be proper and moral so long as 50.01% agree. I oppose forcing people to labor against their will for the benefit of others. So given all that, why wouldn't I oppose socialized healthcare?
The rich is forced to pay 90% of all taxes. “The poor”, which is over half of this country, pays zero or negative taxes but receive virtually all the benefits, food, housing, healthcare, child bearing and rearing, education, disproportionately amount of police protection etc.
Who’s letting the old men die? If the parents of said old man didn’t care to leave him any money, and he didn’t bother to save for his own retirement, who is letting the old man die?
You want to play this holier than you game? Nobody is stopping you from donating money to the old man. How much are you willing to donate?
Poor old men don't often inherit much and would not cover health insurance for the elderly for very long. A 64 year old is around $1200 a month and there is little data beyond that age due to Medicare.
Its simple, they have been bribed to vote against it. Too much money in our existing system. I pay 1600 a month with a 6k deductible and I'm healthy. Now imagine if that's the norm. Imagine how much of our money that is being diverted to for-profit insurance companies, hmo's and big pharma. Now, with a single payer, it all goes into one fund. No insurance company reps, no referrals needed, no huge billing departments, no huge bureaucratic mess, it could be very streamlined and efficient. The doctors can still make 250k year, all health care providers can still make a nice income, big pharma can still sell drugs, but can't repackage generics and charge Medicare $600 for 2 $5 drugs the patent protection should be shortened and we should let any company import generics. Now imagine a society where health care no longer being profit motivated but care and prevention motivated.
Let's take all that money we are spending on basically catastrophe insurance and put that back into the economy. Lets do some math.
I pay 1600 a month.
1600 x 12 months - $19200 This is correct. almost 20k a year and I'm healthy, god forbid I use it because then I'd have to spend $25000 before insurance pays a dime. THINK ABOUT THIS. it's a racket. Now, think, what if I did not have to spend that much, but only spent say $600 a month with no deductible, this is 12k a year, that's 12k that I can use to buy something, a new car every 2 years a house every 10 years, my kids college, hell even an ivy league college at that rate. Heck, I can start a business or invest in someone else's, renovate my kitchen, or a new bathroom, buy new furniture, that is a lot of money getting siphoned out of the economy going directly to a very few players. Most of our savings from healthcare would go right back into the economy that would directly benefit from a single payers system. There is a massive amount of money going into a very broke system and only a few larger companies are getting it. The healthcare/pharma lobby is HUGE. No, I don't believe for a moment that the system could be worse with a single-payer system. How could it be any worse than it is now? Doctors aren't making crap, Patients are paying through the nose for crappy care and insurance is a bloated, disorganized, expensive bureaucratic mess. I pay my share for in-network cost for dental when having it done, and without fail, every time I go, I get a bill a month later from my dentist for $300 for stuff the insurance company would not pay but should have. No, not a fan of health insurance companies and I hope I live long enough to see us kill them off. But it won't happen, there is too much money in it and they are making sure the GOP line is that it's bad for the country. That is a lie. Our biggest danger from this system is waste and corruption from doctors. but there is an easy fix for this. When they break the rules and cheat the system you take their license, sue them for the balance and put them in jail. I suspect that the problem will not be as prevalent as you think. We also could pay for doctors to go to school and pay them a smaller salary for the first 10 years. This will get the money motivated people out of the system, so they can focus on care.
The thing that scares me is anything run by the government eventually costs way more than projected. Yes, I believe the current system is broken, in no way should it cost as much as it does. But, again, do you trust the government to do anything correctly.
Here is how it will work, and how it always works. Rich people will get the best because they can afford it, poor people will be covered because plasma tv's, phones, shoes, and pot take priority over health care, and middle class working people will have to pay no matter what.
Agreed. Which is why I mentioned poorer efficiency when you go single payer. Playing devil's advocate though, one could argue that the introduction of the free market in the form of the insurance companies as the middleman is one of the big reasons why healthcare costs are skyrocketing. When all the big insurance firms are making massive profits yet the costs are going up for the consumers, and revenue going down for independent doctors, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify who is benefiting from this system. I guess the question is would the removal of the middleman insurance company outweigh the increased waste that comes with government interference? That is the question.
One needs to look at the sources of insurer’s profits.
It’s not the Individual Plan market which is why insurers have been exiting this market for more than 25 years, long before the ACA.
Pre ACA, Individual Plans tended to exclude preexisting conditions.
Pre ACA, most plans capped claims per year/ lifetime.
Pre ACA, junk plans tended to be highly lucrative for insurers because they were junk and excluded more than they covered.
Large Group plans tend to be very profiatable probably because of the employee demographics of most employers.
Then there’s the Medicare Supplimental Plans that pay for that which Medicare does not. Private insurers are not the primary payers so it’s very lucrative for insurers. Insurers spend enormous sums of money on Direct marketing their most profitable plans to consumers at this time of year. You can’t watch TV for an hour without seeing an ad for a Medicare Supplimental or Advantage Plan.
Conservatives will only tell you there can be no such thing as a right to anything as long as someone else must first sacrifice something, in order to bring it about. There are many privileges to be earned, but few rights.
Well, I am a conservative on many issues but I disagree with Republicans on healthcare. There should be a baseline level of healthcare to which all Americans have access for free or low cost. I believe this is the right thing to do for the welfare of the American people, in accordance with the U.S. Constitution.
However, I don’t agree with extending that right to illegal aliens.
Those people from other countries that have single payer systems have them because the United States pays for their defense, which is something that Donal Trump is ending. So if you want healthcare improvements here, vote Trump. What is more, they are all going broke, and their socialist ponzi schemes will be ending soon enough. You should probably follow European news a little more closely than just listening to CNN tell you how great it is over there.
"Medicare for all" would bankrupt the system that seniors have paid into and deserve to have.
America was the leader of the health industry, which is why rich Canadians and Europeans would come here for treatment when they got cancer and the like. That is now all going to change.
The simple answer is that it costs too much and is not fair to the people who are paying into the system. My health care dollars are for me and my family, not for bankrolling chronically unemplyed alchoholics, illegal aliens, etc.
Inbound medical tourism numbers are skewed because of the number of Canadians who spend all or a part of the winter in the warmer areas of the US.
Outbound medical tourism from the US is greater than inbound. The 4 largest private US insurers have launched or are seriously considering launching foreign medical tourism programs. It all depends on the specific type of surgery. Flights and lodging for the insured and companion are included.
All global eyes are on Health City in the Cayman Islands, especially for cardiac surgery. They rely on a combination of high volume and high tech. Post surgery patients are monitored from India. Most major private US healthcare systems are there evaluating how they provide world class surgery/ recovery at a fraction of the cost in the US.
Not reading through the thread but if you want to have single payer healthcare, first shut the borders so we can have a quantifiable pool of eligible recipients. We know who will have to pay for it, we also need to know who can receive the benefits of it.
Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 24 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn
Seniors love their Medicare. Citizens of other countries that have single payer healthcare love their system. The only function health insurance companies have is to take money, skim profits, and call the shots for what treatments they will pay for. Do profit sucking insurance companies own Republicans?
Have you talked to seniors lately - not everyone loves Medicare. Medicare only pays for 20% - thus many have to get supplemental plans - or go into HMO's where they have copays and huge deductibles that keep going up - meanwhile they are on a fixed income.
The profit sucking insurance companies own the Democrats - that's why Obama and his crew never fully anticipated this to work and figured single payer was the next route when the ACA failed.
Had they stood up to the insurance companies and medical industries - the ACA may have been doable.
I really wish people would educated themselves before making foolish comments here.
So to you, it's best to go with health care through bankruptcy. To make up for it, the people who can afford to pay for their medical care will cover the losses by paying higher prices. And best of all the government stays the hell out of it.
No, that is apparently a theory you just made up and are for some reason trying to attache to what I said. Huge failure on your part, but whatever.
Republican here and I think a national healthcare plan is just smart business but not for welfare frauds already living off the system. Working people paying the taxes should get a better plan and not have to go to the same clinics.
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