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Asian Americans most definitely have a legitimate claim to historical discrimination by the U.S. Government.
I said they did not face discrimination "more than any other group" which is the title of this thread. They haven't faced discrimination more than any other group. The indigenous population, historically were the most heavily discriminated against. After them African Americans were the most heavily discriminated against from an historical perspective. In congruence with both groups poor whites were heavily discriminated against from an historical perspective (primarily during the colonial period and first 100 years of the nation's founding for poor whites and white women were discriminated against heavily as well for hundreds of years after that).
Asian Americans have been in the U.S. since the 19th century, but even in 2015, over half of "Asian Americans" were not born in the U.S. They come from very diverse immigrant groups (Chinese, Filipino, Korean, Vietnamese, Hmong, Japanese), all with very different stories, coming at different times. Some came as migrant labor, some came as refugees, many in recent years came as educated workers and students. Asians are also fairly concentrated in California, Hawaii, Washington State, and the Northeast (especially New York, New Jersey), as well as pockets in places like Houston.
So to compare Asian-Americans to African-Americans is like comparing apples to oranges.
I am a girl of German and Japanese descent. I personally am annoyed that other people talking about Japanese internment camp as if they knew exactly how each and everybody felt about this. When it comes to "the discrimination Asians face in this country", internment camp always comes up 100% of the time. My relative has been put in the internment camp and she looked NOTHING liked "enemy". This is the biggest "what the F has happened?" moment for her. So to her, she blamed a particular political party instead of anything else. I personally think war is hell and anything happened in war should not be over analyzed. It is what it is. Yes people will discriminate against you simply because you looked like the enemy. This is human nature. No, people will not trust you because you came from the same cultural background of the "enemies". It is SIMPLY human nature. When most of the families in the whole country lost sons fighting with somebody look like "you", yes, they will discriminate against you. This is just human nature. I have a lot of 3rd and 4th generation Japanese-American friends, they never hold on to internment camp because they knew NOTHING about it. Many of them believed internment camp made their families safer during war, so they'd rather just not talk about it. It is never THEIR problem. If this is what they believe, who are you to tell them to think otherwise?
Every group is different, every person is different, it simply is unwise to compare the experiences of Asian-American to African-Americans. They are simply not the same.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 11-05-2018 at 10:34 AM..
So to compare Asian-Americans to African-Americans is like comparing apples to oranges.
I am a girl of German and Japanese descent. I personally am annoyed that other people talking about Japanese internment camp as if they knew exactly how each and everybody felt about this. When it comes to "the discrimination Asians face in this country", internment camp always comes up 100% of the time. My relative has been put in the internment camp and she looked NOTHING liked "enemy". This is the biggest "what the F has happened?" moment for her. So to her, she blamed a particular political party instead of anything else. I personally think war is hell and anything happened in war should not be over analyzed. It is what it is. I have a lot of 3rd and 4th generation Japanese-American friends, they never hold on to internment camp because they knew NOTHING about it. Many of them believed internment camp made their families safer during war, so they'd rather just not talk about it. It is never THEIR problem. If this is what they believe, who are you to tell them to think otherwise?
Every group is different, every person is different, it simply is unwise to compare the experiences of Asian-American to African-Americans. They are simply not the same.
I'd agree with you on the 1st sentence and the last paragraph.
I have a very different interpretation than you about the internment camp experience, based on my experiences with people and friends I know in the Japanese American community.
I've seen "war is hell" as a pretty flimsy excuse or justification for the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. And the reason while a lot of 3rd and 4th Japanese Americans don't know anything about it, not only because it was before their time, it's also because many of their parents and grandparents who did experience that just repressed it and didn't want to talk about it...which is understandable. But it's actually important to remember history and discuss its lessons. That is what drove the Redress and Reparations movement in the 1980s. And that's why the Sansei and younger folks do go on pilgrimages to Tule Lake and honor their history. If Jewish Americans remember the Holocaust and say "Never again," I don't see why J-As shouldn't forget Manzanar.
My takeaway from all that - is that we should always be vigilant when there are groups who are targeted as scapegoats in times of tension. That's why some of the first groups to defend Muslim Americans from being classified as enemies by association in the wake of 9-11 were Asian American advocacy groups like the JACL and Asian Law Alliance.
My takeaway from all that - is that we should always be vigilant when there are groups who are targeted as scapegoats in times of tension. That's why some of the first groups to defend Muslim Americans from being classified as enemies by association in the wake of 9-11 were Asian American advocacy groups like the JACL and Asian Law Alliance. And that is why I don't tolerate any loose talk about bigotry and guilt by association.
Indeed, true, that.
Never think "we're different" when dealing with bigots, because bigots won't overlook the next opportunity to be bigots, and the next opportunity may be you.
I'd agree with you on the 1st sentence and the last paragraph.
I have a very different interpretation than you about the internment camp experience, based on my experiences with people and friends I know in the Japanese American community.
I've seen "war is hell" as a pretty flimsy excuse or justification for the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. And the reason while a lot of 3rd and 4th Japanese Americans don't know anything about it, not only because it was before their time, it's also because many of their parents and grandparents who did experience that just repressed it and didn't want to talk about it...which is understandable. But it's actually important to remember history and discuss its lessons. That is what drove the Redress and Reparations movement in the 1980s. And that's why the Sansei and younger folks do go on pilgrimages to Tule Lake and honor their history. If Jewish Americans remember the Holocaust and say "Never again," I don't see why J-As shouldn't forget Manzanar.
My takeaway from all that - is that we should always be vigilant when there are groups who are targeted as scapegoats in times of tension. That's why some of the first groups to defend Muslim Americans from being classified as enemies by association in the wake of 9-11 were Asian American advocacy groups like the JACL and Asian Law Alliance. And that is why I don't tolerate any loose talk about bigotry and guilt by association.
ITA with the blue. It is very important to remember, recount, and learn from history.
It does seem to me that more and more people whose families were impacted by internment are opening up more about those experiences. IMO it is very important they do and document it as it truly was one of the darkest moments in regards to discrimination in the 20th century.
I also feel that the movement that started in the 1980s, which got the Japanese reparations and that spurred the movement to create Asian-Pacific American History month should be seen as a source of inspiration for Asian Americans at large that they can indeed advocate and have a history of success in these sorts of endeavors as a demographic.
It is important IMO for not only Asian Americans to know and be deeply connected to this period of history but also all Americans so we can recognize one of the instances of grave injustice in this nation, which was indeed based primarily or racism.
Americans like to shy away from the fact that America has a racist history and a culture that was partially built upon racism. The only way to dismantle racism is to study it and pick it apart and ensure those sorts of situations/instances never occur again. To do that you need to remember and speak about what happened.
ITA with the blue. It is very important to remember, recount, and learn from history.
It does seem to me that more and more people whose families were impacted by internment are opening up more about those experiences. IMO it is very important they do and document it as it truly was one of the darkest moments in regards to discrimination in the 20th century.
I also feel that the movement that started in the 1980s, which got the Japanese reparations and that spurred the movement to create Asian-Pacific American History month should be seen as a source of inspiration for Asian Americans at large that they can indeed advocate and have a history of success in these sorts of endeavors as a demographic.
It is important IMO for not only Asian Americans to know and be deeply connected to this period of history but also all Americans so we can recognize one of the instances of grave injustice in this nation, which was indeed based primarily or racism.
Americans like to shy away from the fact that America has a racist history and a culture that was partially built upon racism. The only way to dismantle racism is to study it and pick it apart and ensure those sorts of situations/instances never occur again. To do that you need to remember and speak about what happened.
Amen to that. We don't even have to go back in history to experience these issues.
I came of age in the 1980s, at a time of increasing trade tension between the US and Japan. That was when Vincent Chin got beaten to death by two unemployed auto workers who took him for a Japanese and by association, the country whose companies were hurting their job prospects.
In the late 1990s I also remember Wen Ho Lee getting sacked from his national labs job in New Mexico for something that the CIA director got a slap on the wrist for, and other Asian Americans who worked in defense related jobs see their careers derailed and threatened. At a time when Space Systems Loral was accused of passing secrets to the Chinese government. To this day, I loathe Bill Richardson for his pathetic role in firing Lee "for his own good", and announcing it on 60 Minutes.
And yes, unlike the Germans, we don't reckon with our racist history much. Look at the Confederate stuff going on. Look at how Columbus is honored (still).
Amen to that. We don't even have to go back in history to experience these issues.
I came of age in the 1980s, at a time of increasing trade tension between the US and Japan. That was when Vincent Chin got beaten to death by two unemployed auto workers who took him for a Japanese and by association, the country whose companies were hurting their job prospects.
In the late 1990s I also remember Wen Ho Lee getting sacked from his national labs job in New Mexico for something that the CIA director got a slap on the wrist for, and other Asian Americans who worked in defense related jobs see their careers derailed and threatened. At a time when Space Systems Loral was accused of passing secrets to the Chinese government. To this day, I loathe Bill Richardson for his pathetic role in firing Lee "for his own good", and announcing it on 60 Minutes.
And yes, unlike the Germans, we don't reckon with our racist history much. Look at the Confederate stuff going on. Look at how Columbus is honored (still).
I live in the region where this occurred and remember it because the racial issues around it have been spoken about in our local media since it occurred. The white men who killed him didn't even get any prison time.
I'll note I do think that more people are willing to reckon with history today. Only that those who don't are very loud about not wanting to do so - like with the Confederate thing in particular.
The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans all have cultures that are much more advanced than what was going on in the African continent. They had written languages and a real pride in their history and family bloodlines and a strong work ethic. They also had to deal with European colonialism, but the Chinese attitude and philosophy was to analyse their oppressors and learn from their enemy. Even now, the Chinese steal technologies from other countries in order to advance their own interests. Basically, Asians are more adaptable to adverse situations than Africans.
Asians embrace academics, particularly the sciences. On the other hand, in Africa the uneducated locals fear science and still believe their witch doctors. With the current ebola epidemic in the Congo, the medical aid personnel are at risk from the locals, and attacked on a regular basis. The locals even think that the doctors are the ones bringing the ebola virus to their villages. And in countries like Zimbabwe, albinos are maimed and killed for their body parts so that the local witch doctors can use them for their folk medicines. And in many parts of Africa, those with AIDS believe that sex with a virgin will cure their condition.
So yes, Asians and Africans came to America from vastly different cultures and mindsets.
If someone called me a racial slur, I never let it get me down or dwelled upon the insult. I shrug it off and just keep to my goals. I accept that not every person I meet will like me or even respect me. However most do, and that is good enough for me.
Meanwhile, I've known more that a few black people who get all wound up over some insult to another black person and not even directed at them! Then they just dwell on that and get depressed and then angry... and they stop being productive human beings, all because one of their own was disrespected. And that is just plain stupid behaviour and letting the ignorant racists win.
Also, I honestly don't believe that every racial slur that is spoken was actually being said in a racist way. When people are upset and arguing, they usually throw some negative descriptive towards who they are angry at. Descriptives like "fat", "ugly", "stupid", "b*tch", four-letter words, and a person's race are just thrown in to be hurtful. It all happens in the heat of the moment. And all these words are inside our brains, available to be used... which is why I believe that as long as black people use the N-word, it will always be in our society's collective consciousness and there to be used by ANYONE.
The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans all have cultures that are much more advanced than what was going on in the African continent. They had written languages and a real pride in their history and family bloodlines and a strong work ethic. They also had to deal with European colonialism, but the Chinese attitude and philosophy was to analyse their oppressors and learn from their enemy. Even now, the Chinese steal technologies from other countries in order to advance their own interests. Basically, Asians are more adaptable to adverse situations than Africans.
Asians embrace academics, particularly the sciences. On the other hand, in Africa the uneducated locals fear science and still believe their witch doctors. With the current ebola epidemic in the Congo, the medical aid personnel are at risk from the locals, and attacked on a regular basis. The locals even think that the doctors are the ones bringing the ebola virus to their villages. And in countries like Zimbabwe, albinos are maimed and killed for their body parts so that the local witch doctors can use them for their folk medicines. And in many parts of Africa, those with AIDS believe that sex with a virgin will cure their condition.
So yes, Asians and Africans came to America from vastly different cultures and mindsets.
If someone called me a racial slur, I never let it get me down or dwelled upon the insult. I shrug it off and just keep to my goals. I accept that not every person I meet will like me or even respect me. However most do, and that is good enough for me.
Meanwhile, I've known more that a few black people who get all wound up over some insult to another black person and not even directed at them! Then they just dwell on that and get depressed and then angry... and they stop being productive human beings, all because one of their own was disrespected. And that is just plain stupid behaviour and letting the ignorant racists win.
Also, I honestly don't believe that every racial slur that is spoken was actually being said in a racist way. When people are upset and arguing, they usually throw some negative descriptive towards who they are angry at. Descriptives like "fat", "ugly", "stupid", "b*tch", four-letter words, and a person's race are just thrown in to be hurtful. It all happens in the heat of the moment. And all these words are inside our brains, available to be used... which is why I believe that as long as black people use the N-word, it will always be in our society's collective consciousness and there to be used by ANYONE.
There is more than one culture of African-Americans as well. Even if we narrow it down to "persons of African descent whose ancestors included slaves held by English speaking Americans," that group, too, consists of more than one culture.
One cultural distinction, btw, is how they handle the n-word.
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