Louis Farrakhan Leads ‘Death to America’ Chant on Solidarity Trip to Iran

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

But IMO you are placing too much power into NOI. They are a very small minority within black America, just like skinheads are within white America. They do not wield power to place "hits" on random white people nor do they encourage black people to go attack gays and especially not gay black people.

I'm not confusing the NOI with all black people.

Just pointing out they're a hate group whose members have committed a number of hate crimes.

Certainly they are not as large of a group as the KKK, at least not through much of the KKK's history as that group was once pretty large (millions) and is now a much smaller group of losers.

Their leadership and direction is expressly anti-gay.

Let me pose it a different way. When some rednecks beat down some gay guy in the news what's the message as to culprit? right wing evangelicals or just a few bad actors? Not sure how the message can be spun that NOI doesn't have culpability for the message they send.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

I'm not confusing the NOI with all black people.

Just pointing out they're a hate group whose members have committed a number of hate crimes.

Certainly they are not as large of a group as the KKK, at least not through much of the KKK's history as that group was once pretty large (millions) and is now a much smaller group of losers.

Their leadership and direction is expressly anti-gay.

Let me pose it a different way. When some rednecks beat down some gay guy in the news what's the message as to culprit? right wing evangelicals or just a few bad actors? Not sure how the message can be spun that NOI doesn't have culpability for the message they send.

I honestly do not know of any hate crimes the NOI has committed. And I actually know people who are NOI members.

They don't like gay people but they don't advocate violence against gay people.

The hate crimes against black LGBTQ community members in black America are primarily instigated by black Christians.

So you bringing them up in relation to beating up gays is very strange to me. I'll admit I don't know of every LGBTQ hate crime in America against a black person, but I have a gay friend who was attacked by some black people for being gay and it wasn't by any NOI members.

If some rednecks beat down a gay guy I can see how right wing evangelicals can get the blame - but the majority of black Americans 90% are self proclaimed Christians so if a black gay person is beat down it should rightly be blamed on black evangelicals, not the NOI.

You focus too much on NOI. There are millions of black Christian preachers who say the same things about gay people as Louis Farrakhan. Black people go to church on a very high rate and they soak this stuff up. My own family members who are evangelical Christians have a huge distain for black men being gay in particular. The other day someone posted something about what someone should do if a preschool aged black boy played with a purse at daycare and most everyone, who were all Christian black people (self proclaimed), stated they should take and shame the kid - a few even said the kid should be beat until they know that they should never carry a purse again...these are Christian people....they believe a boy should have the (and I quote) the "sh*t beat out of them until they know never to touch a purse again."

I know the NOI is a hate group, but they do not go out and attack people. They are racist against white people but they are pretty non-violent and they do not encourage their members to go out and beat up gay people - instead they frame homesexuality as an attack of the white man - so if they'd be attacking anyone over it, it would be white people who they feel are "pushing" homosexuality onto black males in order to emasculate black men and destroy the black community. This has been a longstanding view of theirs and many people who agree with their philosophy and it is VERY prevalent in black nationalist minded black Americans today.


ETA: there is a book called "The Isis Papers" by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing that is VERY popular in black America. In that text she writes about how homosexuality is a tool of white supremacy. Her writings/theories on this subject persist today within black America and so any "blame" or anger about homosexuality is usually placed 1 - on white people and 2 - on black single mothers. Most people outside of black America really don't have much knowledge about what drives homophobia within our demogrpahic. It is primarily religion and 70s era authors like Welsing. Her book and others like her, which focuses a lot of ills of black families/communities as a result of white supremacy and white racists systems - is the reason for the homophobia, not the NOI. They have never been violent to my knowledge against black gay people. I know of their history as well (which is a fascinating history that coincides with black fraternal and religious organizations in black America starting in the 19th century) and they never focused much at all on homosexuality until the publishing of books like "The Isis Papers." James Baldwin - a very well known author was an openly gay black man and he was well thought of by NOI members and even met with NOI leaders in the 1960s. This was prior to the publishing of these sorts of books.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

So if a KKK member kills blacks in a string of church attacks the KKK isn't somehow linked to it? We give a pass to the head of the KKK? Like heck we would. That'd be insane.

NOI members killed a crap load of people in racially targeted murders amongst hate rhetoric.

On the bold - it is not the same sort of scenario. You can look at Dylan Roof who had an association with racist groups. If some/one of them paid for his legal fees, that doesn't mean that they ordered him to do what he did - that is what I'm saying.


You acted like in your post that the NOI told those men to go out and kill random white people. They didn't. Also, the group they were involved in was not even an NOI organization. All black Muslim organizations are not the same thing.



There are distinct differences amongst these organizations when you know about them - one being that the NOI really do not follow Islam as a religion. Other black Muslim organizations actually do follow traditional Islam while also preaching a black self-actualization sort of lifestyle (not all the way black nationalists/separatists like the NOI preach). ETA: Some other black Muslim organizations are much more extreme than NOI, who, again, they do not advocate violence. They actually have a pretty strict behavior sort of code that insists that their members never instigate any violence.

[WaldoKitty]

Louis Farrakhan Leads ‘Death to America’ Chant on Solidarity Trip to Iran


Hmm. Wouldn't surprise me if John Kerry was there to support him.

[uggabugga]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

As previously noted (and dodged), these guys killed as many as 73 people, their defense was paid for by the Nation of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

On ths - the NOI pays legal fees/bail, etc., for all of their members.

Originally Posted by residinghere2007

I honestly do not know of any hate crimes the NOI has committed.

whoah, nellie.

you just admitted the zebra murder perps - who selectively slaughtered white people - were NOI members.

so that wasn't a hate crime?