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Old 11-18-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Arizona
7,502 posts, read 4,347,082 times
Reputation: 6150

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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
That is crap
There are plenty of people who are hard workers and have initiative and never get to lifetime economic security

Look at the two guys who started the McDonald's chain
Ray Croc took their "initiative" and pushed it down their throats and took their idea and enriched himself...

Look at George Bush the younger--
Started out with a silver spoon in his mouth, generations of dynastic connections, a genial personality and absolutely NO BUSINESS ABILITY--
He ran every business he "led" into the ground--saved by his father's contacts--until he ran the US economy into the ground with the market crash and the RE debacle...though his own ineptness, inability or no desire to deal with serious issues like the war that Cheney and his cabal started which really de stabalized the Middle East

The government provided plenty of assistance to big business and the wealthy--recent tax bill prime example
Look at all the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned against in his farewell address--
Truth to power...

The government spends more money on helping the wealty through various contracts and special trade deals than it does on social programs...
All in the guise of "free enterprise"...
That's all a lot of crap and you know it. That all started with the "Community Reinvestment Act" under the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton, Andrew Cuomo, Barney Frank along with Janet Reno, put pressure on lending institutions to loan money to people that had no hope of ever paying it back. For someone who "loves2read" apparently you don't do too much of it or at the very least fail to absorb what you read. Unless of course if it suits your own agenda.

Quote:
Bill Clinton - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME
content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804...
In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods. It is the subject of heated political and scholarly debate whether any of these moves are to blame for our troubles , but they certainly played a role in creating a permissive lending ...

Are the Clintons the real housing crash villains? - CNBC
www.cnbc.com/2016/05/28/are-the-clintons-the...
The seeds of the mortgage meltdown were planted during Bill Clinton's presidency. Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators ...

Hey, Barney Frank: The Government Did Cause the Housing ...
www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/hey...
We're hearing Republicans in the presidential primary blame the housing crisis on the Clinton-era push to lend more to poor people. In your view, what caused the mortgage crisis and subsequently ...
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:50 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,964 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
People who come from bad homes in bad neighborhoods and have minimum wage jobs are more likely to collect benefits than those that are born with certain advantages. Why would a working poor person, who collects food stamps and what have you, vote for the party that believes there shouldn`t be a minimum wage? You shouldn`t need Pew or NPR to figure this out.
Why do such people believe their lack of skills is worth more compensation than it actually is? Furthermore, why do they support the flood of low-skill immigrants, both illegal and legal, which actually depresses low-skill labor compensation even more by glutting the market with low-skill workers? That's the epitome of voting AGAINST one's best interest.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:07 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,964 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
There was a study that showed that Republicans were more likely to blame themselves when they failed and Democrats were more likely to blame others/society when they failed. This also ties into why conservatives across all global societies are more happy than liberals. It would be depressing to constantly view yourself is the victim of others instead of the author to your own destiny.

I think acknowledging ones own failures in life is powerful for future success, because then you are more likely to change your bad behavior.

Of course there are exceptions.
That, too, was Pew Research. The results very clearly indicate which of the two believe in personal responsibility (Republicans), and which believe they are entitled to be financially supported via the government taking others' earnings and giving it to them (Democrats).

We all should think very carefully about which position is personally empowering versus which position traps people in perpetual, ineffective, poverty victimhood.

Why people are rich and poor: Republicans and Democrats have very different views - Pew Research
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:10 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Show us the line item on the annual federal expenditures report for corporate subsidies, tax cuts, and other non-means-tested but earned benefits, as there is for ALL of the means-tested unearned public assistance programs. We'll wait...
Do you really understand the question you are asking?

It is on every corporate and individual tax return as "deductions" and "depreciation".

It is money NOT received and it is one of the main reasons we are in hock up to our ears.

As one simple example, the Government currently pays 2/3 of ALL health care costs. That's over 2 TRILLION per year, most of it out of debt.

The very basics of that one go like this. Only a tiny percentage of people pay anywhere near their "way" or cost. Does a family of 5 pay 55K per year in health insurance premiums and deductibles? If they don't, the money is "free money" out of deficit and debt that some other poor suckers (in the future) are going to have to pay the interest on.

Any tax return will show you those subsidies. For a start, even I get $26,000 automatically to deduct from my income. That's far more than Food Stamps!

These subsidies are in the trillions of dollars. You asked us to show them to you. There they are....in the tax returns of corporations and Romney and Trump, et. all.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:12 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That, too, was Pew Research. The results very clearly indicate which of the two believe in personal responsibility (Republicans), and which believe they are entitled to be financially supported via the government taking others' earnings and giving it to them (Democrats).

We all should think very carefully about which position is personally empowering versus which position traps people in perpetual, ineffective, poverty victimhood.

Why people are rich and poor: Republicans and Democrats have very different views - Pew Research
"Views" are not facts.

A friend who is a serious Libertarian...to the point of not working (any standard job) because he doesn't believe in paying taxes. High up mucky muck in the official Libertarian party.

He "believes" and has "views" that personal responsibility is King.

He also has gotten over 2 MILLION dollars worth of treatment and benefits free in the past number of years after becoming injured very badly.

So much for "views".

I guess the summary might be this. Even tho he may be the ultimate "sinner" in these terms, our "common pot of money" goes to him (including mine) and that is generally OK with me. Stuff happens.

Republicans would say "let him die" as they clearly have. BUT, when push comes to shove, they take the money and live.

Summary - your "facts" only prove hypocrisy. I agree. Republican, IMHO, are bigger hypocrites than independents, dems, greens, etc.

The only bigger hypocrites are libertarians.
I hope that fixes things for you.
Th
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
7,195 posts, read 5,722,107 times
Reputation: 12337
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Then I must be the most statistically unique person living because almost every time I get in line at the grocery store someone in front of me unloads all the brand name products I can't afford and pays for them with a Bridge card.

These Bridge card users typically fit into one of two categories...

The first is the ESL dropout that refuses to round-up their 5-plus children that are running around unsupervised.

The second is the obese hood rat riding the electric cart (too fat to walk through the store) while alternately laughing and yelling profanity into a Bluetooth device.

It's only a myth if I don't see it with my own eyes.


And, before you ask, yes, there is some overlap between the two groups.
Well, I would say that maybe you're not seeing what you think you see only because SNAP benefits are not that high. For a family of four, the maximum benefit is $642 per month and the average is $465. So I'm thinking that it would be impossible for someone to fill their carts with expensive, name-brand products with a budget of somewhere between $500 and $600 per month. A single person gets an average of $134 per month, and a couple gets an average of $247.

Also, recipients of the Bridge card need to work at least 20 hours per week.

So disregarding the fact that concentrating on what the person in front of you is buying and how they are paying for their groceries is a bit weird, yes, you are a statistical anomaly if you see someone filling their carts with expensive items and paying the bill with their EBT card (which looks like a regular credit or debit card).
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Former land of plenty
3,212 posts, read 1,651,114 times
Reputation: 2017
I'm sure a lot of Republicans live below their means but then again hasn't Republican Number One filed for bankruptcy about 6 times?
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:17 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,964 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Do you really understand the question you are asking?
Yes, I do. Tax cuts cost nothing whatsoever. All they do is let people/corporations keep more of what they earn. And that's exactly what should happen across the entire income spectrum. Let all people/corporations live within their means by taxing us ALL less. No more picking winners and losers via a GROSSLY unfair Federal Tax structure.
Quote:
It is on every corporate and individual tax return as "deductions" and "depreciation".
You're referring to money that is NOT an expenditure. Get it? Public assistance benefits ARE actual expenditures.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:19 AM
 
26,459 posts, read 15,053,236 times
Reputation: 14612
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That, too, was Pew Research. The results very clearly indicate which of the two believe in personal responsibility (Republicans), and which believe they are entitled to be financially supported via the government taking others' earnings and giving it to them (Democrats).

We all should think very carefully about which position is personally empowering versus which position traps people in perpetual, ineffective, poverty victimhood.

Why people are rich and poor: Republicans and Democrats have very different views - Pew Research
Look at obesity.

Fat Republicans say that they are obese because they make poor eating choices and don't exercise enough.

Fat Democrats say that they are obese because of genetics and evil corporations putting too much sugar in things they eat.


There is a real danger in the liberal mindset of one not being responsible for personal choices.

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-f...blicans-blame/

"I sit on the couch all weekend stuffing my face full of Doritos and Mountain Dew. It is the big corporation's fault that I am fat." -Fat Democrats
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:23 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlongTheI-5 View Post
I'm sure a lot of Republicans live below their means but then again hasn't Republican Number One filed for bankruptcy about 6 times?
Yes, but remember, that was legal....and the parts that weren't were never prosecuted because of threats of lawyers, etc.

Food Stamps are evidently not...or something like that. Convoluted logic.
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