Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Go to NK and tell them their country is not a communist country and see what happens.
That they refer to themselves that way doesn't change the reality that they are not. North Korea is a secular dictatorship by a single family. They can call themselves the Benevolent Order of the Risen Sun, but they are still a pretty vanilla dictatorship.
And why do I need to go there and have them do whatever violence your 3rd party threat implies? Would it change that they are a dictatorship operating under a false banner? Nope. Just makes me dead and changes nothing about the reality that NK is not, in fact, a communist anything. Simple militaristic, familial dictatorship. Period.
Consent does not equal control. If someone consents to be your slave, that person is still an autonomous being who controls whatever he/she produces and operates.
If you contractually convince someone to produce for you, that production is still not yours, it is the worker's, the worker just acts as you demand giving you the appearance of control. The actual accumulation of wealth beyond your own physical/mental limits is impossible being as you have no legal ownership of anything.
In practice private property could appear to exist, but it still wouldn't for all extensive purposes. The difference between paying someone who owns capital to do as you say and owning the capital makes it self clear in the power balances. If you pay people on a crop field to work for you, they have direct control of the capital you need, it's not a question of stealing tools, but owning the land. As such they have leverage over you as independently you could never control that capital.
In today's world that capital is owned by the capitalists and workers must sell their labor to gain access to it. The reverse is true in a free and practical society. Now as for insurance companies, I'm sure a bunch of capitalist can band together and form insurance on capital, but being as the person paying for labor does not have an intrinsic claim on the means of production, the risk level is too high for any significant process of collateral to be obtained.
The production is mine either by that employee giving me the results or me being compensated via insurance.
I win either way.
In today's world that capital is owned by the State, not capitalists. I'm a capitalist in philosophy but must yield to the State in order to survive.
Whether or not insurance companies agree to partake in these ventures is of no consequence to you anyway. I will either do it myself or simply ignore you if I can't get you insured. More than likely, actually 100% positive, I would simply ignore you.
Simple, take away the state and the capitalist owners would have no protection to their claim on the means of production.
Workers will freely organize, some may want to retain their relationship with the capitalist, while others main want to run production democratically.
THERE ARE NO CAPITALIST OWNERS IN A STATIST PARADIGM.
I am renting my life, liberty, and fruits of my labor from the State.
You are starting to go down the rabbit hole here equating the current State as capitalist. You don't like it when someone calls Mao or Lenin communist, do you?
THERE ARE NO CAPITALIST OWNERS IN A STATIST PARADIGM.
I am renting my life, liberty, and fruits of my labor from the State.
You are starting to go down the rabbit hole here equating the current State as capitalist. You don't like it when someone calls Mao or Lenin communist, do you?
No, but even I admit Mao and Lenin had communistic practices.
Our current state may not be capitalist in practice, but it shares many of the same qualities.
Lenin was very much a statist vanguard, but Mao, especially during the culture revolution implemented models that while state owned and mandated, had many features of a socialist/communist society with some communities freely distributing goods, no cash, and some democratic control of the means of production.
Where it was implemented I think it showed promise, but overall Maoist china was a disaster, and I think some level of critique can be placed on communist ideas from that expierence even though it had little to do with the world or economy as I imagine it.
The same thing can be said of 'capitalist' societies today.
No, but even I admit Mao and Lenin had communistic practices.
Our current state may not be capitalist in practice, but it shares many of the same qualities.
Lenin was very much a statist vanguard, but Mao, especially during the culture revolution implemented models that while state owned and mandated, had many features of a socialist/communist society with some communities freely distributing goods, no cash, and some democratic control of the means of production.
Where it was implemented I think it showed promise, but overall Maoist china was a disaster, and I think some level of critique can be placed on communist ideas from that expierence even though it had little to do with the world or economy as I imagine it.
The same thing can be said of 'capitalist' societies today.
We are going down the rabbit hole again. Marx was pretty clear that communism is the end result after the demise of the State. You are either a Statist or anarchist in this world. There is no middle ground. You must choose. Lenin and Mao chose statism. Just like Hitler, Obama, Trump, and Mussolini. Or, dare I say, Rand and Ron Paul.
We are going down the rabbit hole again. Marx was pretty clear that communism is the end result after the demise of the State. You are either a Statist or anarchist in this world. There is no middle ground. You must choose. Lenin and Mao chose statism. Just like Hitler, Obama, Trump, and Mussolini. Or, dare I say, Rand and Ron Paul.
I agree with you but we don’t have to be so rigid in our analysis of history, both past and present.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
