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View Poll Results: Have you seen a general increase in your income and consumption over the course of your working life
Yes: I have generally increased my income over the course of my working life. 20 60.61%
No: I have been unable to increase my income over the course of my working life. 7 21.21%
Unsure: my working life has been to up and down for me to generally know. 6 18.18%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-22-2018, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,941 posts, read 17,740,401 times
Reputation: 10366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Technically I am not either of the government agencies (CBO and IRS) saying that individual US households have seen income increases since the 1960s. Nor am I the University of Michigan.

However, those studies do use government inflation numbers like the BLS's CPI.

Some feel the CPI is understated and some say it is overstated there is no perfect way of measuring inflation as prices move for a variety of reasons across different fields.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...priceindex.asp
Household increase because both parents are working nowadays?

Imo the money supply is a good indicator. Percentage on poverty is another. Which has stayed fairly steady since the 1970's and hasn't gone down.
Regional and state differences too.

What percentage of take home do a few things cost me? The few items in my basket are easy to figure. Rent, gas, utilities a couple more. Do I have less of X because I don't have the money? Life style change? I make it easy.

I look at how technology has made life so much easier and less expensive but don't see high enough returns overall.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:20 AM
 
29,881 posts, read 11,440,468 times
Reputation: 18386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anmarxist View Post
Repeat after me: PURCHASING POWER.

The average American hasn't had a raise in 40 years, quit fooling yourself.

That is totally not true. The average American is not doing the same exact job that they did 40 years ago. People move up the ladder, acquire more education and training that makes them more valuable to their employers, quit for better jobs or become self employed.

I know lots of people who have been working for the past 40 years. I do not know one of them who has not had earnings that greatly outpaced inflation. I know there are some out there but its usually bad choices, substance abuse or other issues that have kept them back. If you are 60 and a cashier at Walmart you made a lifetime of wrong choices to end up there today. Who do we blame for that?

Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 11-22-2018 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:42 AM
 
26,214 posts, read 14,824,312 times
Reputation: 14409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Household increase because both parents are working nowadays?

Imo the money supply is a good indicator. Percentage on poverty is another. Which has stayed fairly steady since the 1970's and hasn't gone down.
Regional and state differences too.

What percentage of take home do a few things cost me? The few items in my basket are easy to figure. Rent, gas, utilities a couple more. Do I have less of X because I don't have the money? Life style change? I make it easy.

I look at how technology has made life so much easier and less expensive but don't see high enough returns overall.
Good question, but the study is clear. Individual and household income are both up from long-term studies on individuals lasting 3 decades.

Studies also show Americans consume more products and luxury items. I can't go into anyone's house with kids and not see an excess of products.
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,798 posts, read 3,003,016 times
Reputation: 1612
My job is totally dead end...driving people to the airport. They pay a small commission which comes out to less than AZ minimum wage. I can't seem to get excited over other occupations though. Come on Trump, motivate me and inspire me so I can get off the EBT card.
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:09 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,834,508 times
Reputation: 15558
Goodness gracious.

Wage growth does not include PROMOTIONS. If the starting salary doesn't change over 30 years (factoring in the time value of money) then there is no wage growth -- even if most teachers have experienced some kind promotion increase.

Wage growth has to take into consideration the time value of money.

So while many or most people might be making more because of promotions -- that doesn't mean there has been wage growth.

So if when you consider the time value of money and compare 2007 starting salary with 2015 starting salary -- that's how you determine wage growth.

You don't determine wage growth by how much a teacher may have increased their wages with seniority raises.
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:14 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,834,508 times
Reputation: 15558
Just for an example -- 50K in 2007 is equivalent to 59,000 in 2018.

That means if a job paid 50K in 2007 as an entry level for that position...it would need to be 59,000 K to be the SAME value. So While wages may seem to have increased by 9,000 -- it really hasn't. The time value of money comes into play.

And you would hope most of us have had absolute wage increased over the last 11 years.

But is it real growth -- given everything else.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/2007-do...7?amount=50000
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:46 PM
 
26,214 posts, read 14,824,312 times
Reputation: 14409
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Goodness gracious.

Wage growth does not include PROMOTIONS. If the starting salary doesn't change over 30 years (factoring in the time value of money) then there is no wage growth -- even if most teachers have experienced some kind promotion increase.

Wage growth has to take into consideration the time value of money.

So while many or most people might be making more because of promotions -- that doesn't mean there has been wage growth.

So if when you consider the time value of money and compare 2007 starting salary with 2015 starting salary -- that's how you determine wage growth.

You don't determine wage growth by how much a teacher may have increased their wages with seniority raises.
The perception and context of may politicians and media types is that Americans have had stagnant wages - that individuals do not see a growth in wages after factoring out inflation over the long-term.

School districts I know of give raises simply for years taught. You also get raises for recertifying...something that you are required to do if you want to keep teaching anyways (just as a pharmacist is required to keep studying about new drugs, etc...).


You are yet another person denying the studies, but not voting in the poll. I am guessing that you have experienced your income rising, but feel saying so is detrimental to your argument denying the study?
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:02 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,295 posts, read 18,445,386 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anmarxist View Post
Repeat after me: PURCHASING POWER.

The average American hasn't had a raise in 40 years, quit fooling yourself.
Well, let's see... my first job payed a wage of $2.65 per hour (which was right around 40 years ago). If my purchasing power hadn't have increased drastically between then and now, I'd have starved to death a long, long time ago.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:06 PM
 
31,857 posts, read 14,841,144 times
Reputation: 13516
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The perception and context of may politicians and media types is that Americans have had stagnant wages - that individuals do not see a growth in wages after factoring out inflation over the long-term.

School districts I know of give raises simply for years taught. You also get raises for recertifying...something that you are required to do if you want to keep teaching anyways (just as a pharmacist is required to keep studying about new drugs, etc...).


You are yet another person denying the studies, but not voting in the poll. I am guessing that you have experienced your income rising, but feel saying so is detrimental to your argument denying the study?


Higher wages mean nothing if half your paycheck goes towards healthcare. Teachers get yearly raises just like everyone else. What's your point for singling out teachers.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,941 posts, read 17,740,401 times
Reputation: 10366
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Good question, but the study is clear. Individual and household income are both up from long-term studies on individuals lasting 3 decades.

Studies also show Americans consume more products and luxury items. I can't go into anyone's house with kids and not see an excess of products.
Very true. You wont see too many with excesses in their savings account. Heck you won't even see a savings account in many houses.
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