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Old 11-27-2018, 05:44 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,125,410 times
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From the statistics I've read, Jewish Americans do tend to be better educated. I'm not sure about your emphasis on finance - obviously there's a high proportion of Jewish Americans in the arts, too - but historically, Jewish communities were forced into finance in Europe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CCbaxter View Post
A scholar who uses Wikipedia as a reference source.
Interesting.
Actually, a study of Wikileaks found that its accuracy was on a par with an encyclopedia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJmann View Post
And what does my great faiths message have to do with Jews committing welfare and insurance frauds me telling the true facts?!

Well, first, there's an implication that your "forgiveness" isn't very real. Second, although you may personally have encountered some bad examples, you cite no actual statistics to back up your accusation, so the implication is that your prejudice is overcoming your idea of "love."

Last edited by Clarallel; 11-27-2018 at 06:30 PM..

 
Old 11-27-2018, 05:54 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,629,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
From the statistics I've read, Jewish Americans do tend to be better educated. I'm not sure about your emphasis on finance - obviously there's a high proportion of Jewish Americans in the arts, too - but historically, Jewish communities were forced into finance in Europe.
The simple truths have been repeated over and over again - it still amazes me that adults don't know their basic history.
(not talking about you - since you have some of it right)......

Hit the Easy Peasy Button...

Sober
Educated
Believe in Hard Work and Family
NOT Allowed to own land and farm....

OK, that last one is responsible for a long list of multi-generational skills. As you note, the Jews entered trades they were ALLOWED TO ENTER. Finance is/was one of them. So is merchant and trader. So is Medicine and Law. So is Science and Physics (Einstein).

It's pretty simple to go from there - list out those occupations and ask ourselves "Hey, do these make as much money as a coal miner or assembly line worker?".

Yes.....they make much more. Therefore, folks that do these skilled jobs are better off than most.

I consider it the Big Joke of History against Christians - that is, Christians put down the Jews big time from Day One right up until today. "Ha Ha, you can't own any land and EVERYONE knows land is power" - but it came back to kick them in the butt, eh? The modern world is run by skill and brains.

Revenge of the Nerds Part One we could call it.
 
Old 11-27-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,849,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
If you can tolerate a correction....

It's the Singaporean Chinese (not Japanese) who have higher IQs than Jews, generally speaking, although the difference is slight - something like 114 vs 112.
Thomas Sowell wrote an article that referenced ethnic Chinese as the Jews of the East. They tend to be more successful than the natives in the countries they have immigrated to and have also been persecuted particularly in times of economic downturns.

Last edited by whogo; 11-27-2018 at 06:43 PM..
 
Old 11-27-2018, 06:36 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,125,410 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The simple truths have been repeated over and over again - it still amazes me that adults don't know their basic history.
(not talking about you - since you have some of it right)......

Sober
Educated
Believe in Hard Work and Family
NOT Allowed to own land and farm....

OK, that last one is responsible for a long list of multi-generational skills. As you note, the Jews entered trades they were ALLOWED TO ENTER. Finance is/was one of them. So is merchant and trader. So is Medicine and Law. So is Science and Physics (Einstein).

It's pretty simple to go from there - list out those occupations and ask ourselves "Hey, do these make as much money as a coal miner or assembly line worker?". Yes.....they make much more. Therefore, folks that do these skilled jobs are better off than most.

I consider it the Big Joke of History against Christians - that is, Christians put down the Jews big time from Day One right up until today. "Ha Ha, you can't own any land and EVERYONE knows land is power" - but it came back to kick them in the butt, eh? The modern world is run by skill and brains.

Revenge of the Nerds Part One we could call it.


Okay, I'm not sure what part of my post you objected to.

My historical reference was back to Europe in the ... 12th century? 15th century? I don't know. But I do know that it pre-dates physics. (I like your "Ha Ha.")

But I have to say that EVERY ethnicity and EVERY religion will claim that they believe in family, and most will say that they believe in hard work. I'm sure that Japanese-American Buddhists think that, and Irish-American Catholics think that, and so on.

Last edited by Clarallel; 11-27-2018 at 06:54 PM..
 
Old 11-27-2018, 06:46 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,786,749 times
Reputation: 8442
Will note that I love all my Jewish friends and co-workers and vendors (have worked with a lot of Jews - they are great people IMO and not hung up over a lot of things other people get hung up about and all of them I know are genuinely nice, decent folks).

However, I'll note that the "do like we do" thing that people are repeating in this thread could not occur in America for any group that was not white like Jews were/are from the late 1800s through mid 20th century.

I'll note that Jews also were very aware of the fact that whiteness gave them a benefit over other goups. My own family were/are black American people and we have always "worked hard" and always fought tooth and nail to get an education but were denied even access to schools for many, many decades depending on the area. If you are not able to get a decent education, you are not able to rise in stature in America in days gone by.

I don't believe that that is the case today to a great extent, but anytime I see all these "my ancestors did _____" as a genealogical researcher, who primarily focuses on black American family histories (both formerly enslaved and long "free") I know for a fact that even free blacks were looked as "less" than Jews in America and a Jew and an Irishman was preferred over a black. They also were not systematically blocked from education, nor were their businesses looted/burned everywhere they were success due to getting out of their "place." It has always been okay for whites to be successful in America and contrary to what many of you believe poverty in and of itself is not the same for a white poverty stricken person in the 19th to mid 20th century as it was for a poverty stricken black person.

I do think that the rise in class of Jews was/is impressive, but for someone who is well learned on the fact that "race" meaning "not white" was and is still a factor in the treatment, outlook, and opportunities afforded to individuals in this nation (especially prior to 1980) it is kind of eye rolling whenever I see posts or hear comments about what Jews did and how XYZ (non white people - especially black people) as if black people had the same opportunities. They did not. And Jews of that time period were aware of this on a pretty large scale. They also knew what oppression was from their "old countries" where they were also heavily terrorized and killed because of their ethnic roots, which is why they were heavily involved in the early Civil Rights Movement in America. Jewish lawyers created a "niche" market for themselves as well as Civil Rights attorneys and many Jews taught and were professors at HBCUs. So again, not taking a jab at Jews, but it is important to acknowledge the fact that whites in America, especially post WW1 and very much especially post WW2 - they (and the Irish and the Polish and Italians and other poorly looked upon ethnic Europeans) became "white" and were tolerated in "white" areas which allowed them opportunities to advance.

But any successes by an oppressed group IMO are impressive. I'm impressed by the Jews and the Irish and the Italians and Polish along with my own demographic who has made great strides since 1980. However, it is important to remember that not all Americans, even those of us who have American ancestry back to the 1600s who are black Americans, we just did not have the opportunities to succeed financially and when many of us did they were killed and their property/businesses stolen or burned to the ground.

I'm reading a book right now about free black pioneers of the Great Northwest and it details many "free" black families in "border" states and how they and blacks in IN, OH, and IL and others were literally run off their land and forced to flee for their lives after they had spent literally decades creating successful homesteads. Them beign "too successful" was a threat - similar to how it was and still is for Jewish people - being "too successful" and belonging to a hated/marginalized ethnic group means you are easily able to be killed, terrorized, and have your property taken from you. Coupled with having no legal rights and not even being considered citizens of your own country (which was the case for 19th century black Americans until passage of the 15th amendment) and you have people who are prevented from succeeding to any wide degree. Even during the 20th century there were focused race riots instigated by whites against black sections of cities or all black towns for being too successful and getting out of the their "place" as their "place" for whites in America was always the bottom and they would ensure that they stayed at the bottom as long as possible.
 
Old 11-27-2018, 07:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
Okay, I'm not sure what part of my post you objected to.

My historical reference was back to Europe in the ... 12th century? 15th century? I don't know. But I do know that it pre-dates physics. (I like your "Ha Ha.")

But I have to say that EVERY ethnicity and EVERY religion will claim that they believe in family, and most will say that they believe in hard work. I'm sure that Japanese-American Buddhists think that, and Irish-American Catholics think that, and so on.
Don't think my quoting is disputing. I was just adding to your post and noting that many other here and elsewhere don't seem to know what you know...
 
Old 11-27-2018, 07:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
But any successes by an oppressed group IMO are impressive. I'm impressed by the Jews and the Irish and the Italians and Polish along with my own demographic who has made great strides since 1980. However, it is important to remember that not all Americans, even those of us who have American ancestry back to the 1600s who are black Americans, we just did not have the opportunities to succeed financially and when many of us did they were killed and their property/businesses stolen or burned to the ground.

.
You have a strong - and true - case here. Black folks in the USA have had the "Jewish Experience" in many of these regards. The fruits of their labors were stolen and they were often killed or driven away.

No doubt, though, that Jews have had it much better in the USA because of skin color and the way they got here. That is, they came with the full skill set and family, etc. - and were allowed to practice their religion and ply their trades.

This cannot be compared with the Black Experience, but it does give some Jews a more compassionate view of the world...which, again, is why Jews tend very liberal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam
Tikkun olam

The concept is deeply embedded in Judaism,:
"tikkun olam is the idea that Jews bear responsibility not only for their own moral, spiritual, and material welfare, but also for the welfare of society at large"

The crazies here would call us Social Justice Warriors and Activists. We accept the label with pride.
 
Old 11-27-2018, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,591 posts, read 56,363,195 times
Reputation: 23297
Another Jewish success story - an obit from today's local paper - died at age 100, had been an engineer, founded Astronautics Corporation in 1959 with his sister, an attorney.

Quote:
It was a life of many accomplishments for the 10-year-old boy who came to New York with his mother and younger sister in 1928 and didn’t speak a word of English.

“Nate did a number of things to pay for his college textbooks and other academic expenses, including selling ice cream, fruits and vegetables from a horse-drawn cart at a local park in New York City,” Loomis said.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money...00/2120427002/
I came of age in the 50's, never dreamed of being an attorney - although I realize now, I should have been. But it was never even mentioned as a possibility for me - no attys or doctors in the family, parents barely finished high school. Would have been hard with no role models in the family. Neither of my parents or their siblings went beyond high school, my mother's sister barely finished 8th grade. No doubt culture plays a big role in the life we aspire to or opportunities available. I agree, blacks have been and are still fighting a special war.
 
Old 11-27-2018, 07:43 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,765 posts, read 40,091,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
mmm Maybe Im not understanding. One can be anti Zionist and not be anti Semetic.

But yes it's not because one is Jewish necessarily, it's because of wealth. Two parent families strike again.
Two parent families PLUS the Jewish tradition of valuing academic prowess and practicing self-discipline. And the Chinese, Japanese and Korean families have similar cultural goals for their children.

All of my Hispanic co-workers with children are in two parent situations, but their children aren't interested in pursuing STEM careers and their parents just don't care if their kids aren't 4.0 students. So despite having two parents, their kids will never succeed in life like a Jewish or Asian child will. Some will, but most just aren't interested in a life in a high powered career. But on the other hand, they place a higher priority on having time off from work and fun times. It's just the nature of being from a macho culture where the menfolk are more concerned about being a player and the women want to be sexy and attractive to all men.
 
Old 11-27-2018, 07:51 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,629,930 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Two parent families PLUS the Jewish tradition of valuing academic prowess and practicing self-discipline. And the Chinese, Japanese and Korean families have similar cultural goals for their children.

All of my Hispanic co-workers with children are in two parent situations, but their children aren't interested in pursuing STEM careers and their parents just don't care if their kids aren't 4.0 students. So despite having two parents, their kids will never succeed in life like a Jewish or Asian child will. Some will, but most just aren't interested in a life in a high powered career. But on the other hand, they place a higher priority on having time off from work and fun times. It's just the nature of being from a macho culture where the menfolk are more concerned about being a player and the women want to be sexy and attractive to all men.
Give them a generation or two.
I volunteered in the most dangerous city in the US (Camden NJ) at the time and taught tech to some hispanic youth. One is high up in Silicon Valley now. Note how many hispanic names you see in corporate America (at the top), etc...

You are correct about the "nose to the grindstone" male dominated culture, but the same went for Slavs, Poles and many others. Once they get their heads above water and can have the time to make other decisions they will - and do.

Hispanics have been relegated to certain jobs just like many immigrant groups...because they were not yet part and parcel of "the club" and many were undocumented. As we move forward this will change...

Also, and this is not a bad thing, if you look around the world you will find that many from Tropical and Semi-Tropical countries prefer a more balanced way of life. Celebrations, Families, Cafe Society, etc....as you note, the Rat Race and competition is not in their genes. I wouldn't want these influences to change - because, lord knows, the last thing we need is everyone climbing the corporate ladders.
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