Why Are Indian Reservations So Poor? (education, money, laws, billion)

[snebarekim]

Alcohol?

[historyfan]

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

Indian reservations are located on land that is virtually worthless--arid, no good for farming or hunting or fishing even at subsistence-level, lacking any significant natural resources, etc. Any land worth living on, or using for financial gain, was settled by those with more political power.

For another thing, those still on these reservations are poor because the ones born there who have initiative and/or above-average intelligence and/or skills will leave to go to economically prosperous areas and find jobs. The same goes for people born in the majority of places: you have to go to where the jobs are, or settle for welfare-level quality of life.

It is worth noting that Reservations do have one source of great wealth, and it is not subject to the confiscatory-level taxes that keep most American ventures from helping regular working class Americans--casinos. The only problem with those is that the vast amount of wealth they produce goes to a very small number of people, but that's hardly unusual in our nation today.

There are many reservations and they are all different. The ones I am familiar with are not located on "virtually worthless land", nor are without resources.

[Colorado Rambler]

Originally Posted by Motion

I saw that about the Navajo reservation. Seeing that made me wonder if reservations were a good idea to begin with. Sherman Alexie recommended that Native American kids at some point should leave those reservations because they were designed to kill Indian people.

I live in "Indian Country." The Navajo Nation is maybe 20 miles away, and the Ute Mountain Ute Reservation is perhaps 5 miles from me. As others have said, it would easily take a book to explain the history of the Native American tribes and the reasons for their current low standard of living. Originally, the reservation system was designed to kill off as many as possible. Native Americans were forced onto barren stretches of land and forced to farm - something they knew nothing about because most tribes had been nomadic and hunted wild game for their main food supply.

However, those days are long gone (thankfully) and tribes such as the Navajo are now living on their ancestral lands once more. While no one is forced to stay on the rez, no one is forced to leave either. Native Americans are often extremely protective of their culture and their language - especially since until recently Native children were separated at a young age from their families and their tribe and forbidden to speak in their native tongue. That and many Native Americans are just not that excited to leave their homes and families and go live with the white people who did them so very many terrible wrongs.

I used to teach at a Native American College and in my experience, the Navajo do better than most. They herd sheep, grow crops, weave incredible rugs that can sell for $1,000.00 or more on auction and they are gifted silversmiths. Two Navajo women just won election to Congress in the recent midterms. I like the Navajo very much and they seem to return the favor. While the Navajo Nation can seem bleak to some, the Navajo have a strong sense of place, a deep respect for their elders, and a great sense of humor.

By contrast, the Ute seem to have a much more difficult time and the Ute town of Towac just down the road from me does remind one of the third world. One of the major things that set the Utes back and to a lesser extent, the Navajo is alcohol. Those of us with a European heritage have had thousands of years to accustom ourselves to strong spirits, but Native Americans have been exposed to alcohol for only a few hundred years - if that. Alcohol is the cause of what amounts to a major slaughter on the roads around the Rez, and Grandparents often end up being the ones who raise the children because the parents are too far gone. It is illegal to bring alcohol onto an Indian reservation, but this law only seems to serve to make the bootleggers rich. There is a bootleg joint around the corner from me and they do a brisk business, making an unbelievable amount of money. I'd love to burn that damn place down some dark night, but I abide the law even if the bootleggers don't.

I could go on writing about this subject all night, but these are some of the things that go on and keep many Native tribes living in poverty. Perhaps one day things will improve. I certainly hope so for the sake of my Native American friends.

[Redshadowz]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

This would be the case if you went to reservations controlled by NA in Canada, Mexico, Central America and South America...for some reason, they don't want to or don't adopt the modern world materialisms.

Originally Posted by historyfan

There are many reservations and they are all different. The ones I am familiar with are not located on "virtually worthless land", nor are without resources.

1) Why would anyone want to adopt modern-world materialism if they weren't forced to?

2) Why aren't more rural areas poor? Simple, because most people in rural areas become so desperate they move to the cities where there are jobs.



The history of industrial capitalism has been the movement of the peasants from the countryside into the cities as laborers for capitalists who not only have capital, but can use the government to protect/subsidize their businesses.


Under normal circumstances, farmers with advantageous-access to capital(IE below-market interest rates) are better-positioned to out-compete their rivals, because they already possess capital for collateral for the financing to buy tractors, trucks, combines, harvesters, and other machines. The small farmers without capital, either can't get financing at all, or have to pay higher rates, which drives up their costs, which makes it impossible to compete with larger and better-financed farms. The small farmers either go bankrupt and get foreclosed on by the banks, or lose the land from not paying taxes, or they just sell it off to larger farmers, and then move to the cities.


For the Natives, they often have no tax-liability at all, and because the land is owned in a trust, they cannot sell it, and they cannot use it as collateral for financing. So they can neither get access to investment capital, nor can those with capital invest in their land. So they basically remain in a kind of "preindustrial" economy. Which leaves them materially-poor, but they get to keep their land, forever, with their family, and they aren't forced to live in the cities like the rest of us plebs.


What most of the people in this thread don't understand is that the only way to make the Natives richer, is to either...

1) Force them off the reservations to live in the cities.
2) Bring the city to the reservation.
3) Give them more money.

None of these would be a good thing.

[Winterfall8324]

Originally Posted by thelogo

They were designed to destroy their way of life. They used to have rights to hunt, barter, etc. All that was taken away and were left to receive hands out; left out to wither and die or they could get out and mix with the rest of society. However, reservation are not the only 3rd world places in the US, there are lots of people living in very poor conditions.
Here's an example in New York City.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BYoPUOXhVA

You have to give they guy credit, he makes it work.

[Winterfall8324]

Originally Posted by Redshadowz

1) Why would anyone want to adopt modern-world materialism if they weren't forced to?

2) Why aren't more rural areas poor? Simple, because most people in rural areas become so desperate they move to the cities where there are jobs.



The history of industrial capitalism has been the movement of the peasants from the countryside into the cities as laborers for capitalists who not only have capital, but can use the government to protect/subsidize their businesses.


Under normal circumstances, farmers with advantageous-access to capital(IE below-market interest rates) are better-positioned to out-compete their rivals, because they already possess capital for collateral for the financing to buy tractors, trucks, combines, harvesters, and other machines. The small farmers without capital, either can't get financing at all, or have to pay higher rates, which drives up their costs, which makes it impossible to compete with larger and better-financed farms. The small farmers either go bankrupt and get foreclosed on by the banks, or lose the land from not paying taxes, or they just sell it off to larger farmers, and then move to the cities.


For the Natives, they often have no tax-liability at all, and because the land is owned in a trust, they cannot sell it, and they cannot use it as collateral for financing. So they can neither get access to investment capital, nor can those with capital invest in their land. So they basically remain in a kind of "preindustrial" economy. Which leaves them materially-poor, but they get to keep their land, forever, with their family, and they aren't forced to live in the cities like the rest of us plebs.


What most of the people in this thread don't understand is that the only way to make the Natives richer, is to either...

1) Force them off the reservations to live in the cities.
2) Bring the city to the reservation.
3) Give them more money.

None of these would be a good thing.

There is a high depression rate in the reservations as drug use is prominent. I don't know hoe prominent fishing and hunting are in most of the reservations.

[desertdetroiter]

I don’t know. Ask the reservationists.

My guess is that it’s s myriad of reasons.

[Catgirl64]

The truth is probably very complicated at this point, but the fact that they were forced onto the poorest, least productive land was not an auspicious start.

[jasperhobbs]

Many are not poor as they get casino revenue. The problem is for 90% of the members is the more money they get, the drunker/drugged up they get. The fact is they usually get their check the beginning of the month and it is spent within days.

Alcoholism and drug use is rampant on the reservation.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by snebarekim

Alcohol?

TBF - I would probably take to drink if I thought I was related to Elizabeth Warren.