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I harbor no ill will toward Daddy Bush and I actually have a lot of respect for his quite Yankee type of life and world-view. However, this is the political forum and I think a brief review of his record is meaningful. I was there (in business, raising kids, etc.) through this period. I took some time to cruise some sites which lay out his record and added my own knowledge to that. None of the sources are/were partisan. Some of these issues and actions were positive - others need to be weighed in the longer view of history.
My take - I'd like to hear others.
Introduction- Daddy Bush (I am using that shorthand to make it clear which GW we are talking about) was a one-term POTUS at a time when two terms would have seemed a sure thing. He was Reagans VP and took over after Reagan and a wartime POTUS (Gulf War). This would have seemed to make a LOCK on re-election. Yet he lost the bid. That's probably a story in itself, but here are/were the major issues and some of my comments.
1. Gulf War - the Gulf War probably defined Bush with most Americans at the time. A clear victory - of a large battle. The problem here is that it WAS only a battle in a continuous war in the ME and as we have seen, it didn't solve a thing.
Being a general pacifist (except when truly needed), I would say that it emboldened American military planners and perhaps fed the tendency to get into the wars we currently are in. Those of my generation thought perhaps we had learned the lessons of Vietnam and Korea, but this provided a "we can win easily" event that emboldened neo-cons and other hawks.
2. S&L Bailout - this was a very big deal and I think many Americans don't know about the crisis and the effect on the American people. Real Estate was mired in debt in a similar fashion to the Great Recession (smaller, but still nationwide and kept the priced down for 8 years).
The Government bailed out banks to the tune of 100 Billion. I don't think this was "lent" money like the last Recession, but rather free money...including over a Billion to a bank that Bush's son was director of (Silverado).
3. ADA - the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act was considered as one of his key accomplishments. However, he was not the point person for this issue - just the POTUS who happened to be sitting there when the bill made it to his desk. Orin Hatch (R) of Utah and Ted Kennedy (D) of MA. were the two people most responsible for the ADA. We can state that Bush didn't veto it, but why would he when it made it through years of negotiation and both houses?
Still, it was a truly great example of Government working "For the People" and has made a vast difference for tens of millions of people.
Strangely enough, those are about it when looking at the record....and maybe why he didn't get re-upped.
He lost re-election for these reasons (IMHO).....
1. He had a bad VP (Quayle) that most people would not have trusted being a heartbeat away.
2. "No new taxes" - Conservatives held him to this statement that he made, despite the need for new taxes. Bush did the right thing but doing the right thing doesn't turn out well if people want you to do the wrong thing.
3. Triple Threat - The election of Clinton was a three way race with Perot in the deal. I was a Perot voter myself (and I am extremely liberal). It wasn't because Perot had those charts about NAFTA and the deficit and jobs....but rather that I think this was the beginning of many Americans knowing that things were not right in River City (our country). As mentioned above, there was a pretty bad economic hit (recession) from the S&L Crisis, so when the war cheerleading ended people found themselves not prospering.
This is just a guess, but my assumption is that Bush would have won re-election in a two-way race and with a better VP. But not by a wide margin.
His rating in history is so-so. Not bad, not good. That is probably where he should stand because he kept the basic helm in the direction that he found it. However, other than signing the ADA, he did not achieve forward progress in the country to any meaningful extent.
That's my take.
He was a product of his times and upbringing and a "institutional republican", which is often derided today by his own party voters. So be it, that's who he was.
On a more personal level, he seemed a good man. It's hard to put the "blue blood" label on a dude who was shot down in WWII. Obviously he knew a lot more about the world than most.
One BIG event that sunk him in the eyes of many Americans was that he didn't know what a Supermarket Checkout scanner was! This reinforced the "out of touch" (billionaire in bubble) thing for many working Americans. It was a famous scene......
Excuse the Romney WaWa moments.....in the vid. I think WaWa is amazing too! Who would have ever thought you could completely computerize custom sandwich ordering in the 1990s?
Bush is in the video also - the clip I am referring to.
I harbor no ill will toward Daddy Bush and I actually have a lot of respect for his quite Yankee type of life and world-view. However, this is the political forum and I think a brief review of his record is meaningful. I was there (in business, raising kids, etc.) through this period. I took some time to cruise some sites which lay out his record and added my own knowledge to that. None of the sources are/were partisan. Some of these issues and actions were positive - others need to be weighed in the longer view of history.
My take - I'd like to hear others.
Introduction- Daddy Bush (I am using that shorthand to make it clear which GW we are talking about) was a one-term POTUS at a time when two terms would have seemed a sure thing. He was Reagans VP and took over after Reagan and a wartime POTUS (Gulf War). This would have seemed to make a LOCK on re-election. Yet he lost the bid. That's probably a story in itself, but here are/were the major issues and some of my comments.
1. Gulf War - the Gulf War probably defined Bush with most Americans at the time. A clear victory - of a large battle. The problem here is that it WAS only a battle in a continuous war in the ME and as we have seen, it didn't solve a thing.
Being a general pacifist (except when truly needed), I would say that it emboldened American military planners and perhaps fed the tendency to get into the wars we currently are in. Those of my generation thought perhaps we had learned the lessons of Vietnam and Korea, but this provided a "we can win easily" event that emboldened neo-cons and other hawks.
2. S&L Bailout - this was a very big deal and I think many Americans don't know about the crisis and the effect on the American people. Real Estate was mired in debt in a similar fashion to the Great Recession (smaller, but still nationwide and kept the priced down for 8 years).
The Government bailed out banks to the tune of 100 Billion. I don't think this was "lent" money like the last Recession, but rather free money...including over a Billion to a bank that Bush's son was director of (Silverado).
3. ADA - the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act was considered as one of his key accomplishments. However, he was not the point person for this issue - just the POTUS who happened to be sitting there when the bill made it to his desk. Orin Hatch (R) of Utah and Ted Kennedy (D) of MA. were the two people most responsible for the ADA. We can state that Bush didn't veto it, but why would he when it made it through years of negotiation and both houses?
Still, it was a truly great example of Government working "For the People" and has made a vast difference for tens of millions of people.
Strangely enough, those are about it when looking at the record....and maybe why he didn't get re-upped.
He lost re-election for these reasons (IMHO).....
1. He had a bad VP (Quayle) that most people would not have trusted being a heartbeat away.
2. "No new taxes" - Conservatives held him to this statement that he made, despite the need for new taxes. Bush did the right thing but doing the right thing doesn't turn out well if people want you to do the wrong thing.
3. Triple Threat - The election of Clinton was a three way race with Perot in the deal. I was a Perot voter myself (and I am extremely liberal). It wasn't because Perot had those charts about NAFTA and the deficit and jobs....but rather that I think this was the beginning of many Americans knowing that things were not right in River City (our country). As mentioned above, there was a pretty bad economic hit (recession) from the S&L Crisis, so when the war cheerleading ended people found themselves not prospering.
This is just a guess, but my assumption is that Bush would have won re-election in a two-way race and with a better VP. But not by a wide margin.
His rating in history is so-so. Not bad, not good. That is probably where he should stand because he kept the basic helm in the direction that he found it. However, other than signing the ADA, he did not achieve forward progress in the country to any meaningful extent.
That's my take.
He was a product of his times and upbringing and a "institutional republican", which is often derided today by his own party voters. So be it, that's who he was.
On a more personal level, he seemed a good man. It's hard to put the "blue blood" label on a dude who was shot down in WWII. Obviously he knew a lot more about the world than most.
One BIG event that sunk him in the eyes of many Americans was that he didn't know what a Supermarket Checkout scanner was! This reinforced the "out of touch" (billionaire in bubble) thing for many working Americans. It was a famous scene......
Excuse the Romney WaWa moments.....in the vid. I think WaWa is amazing too! Who would have ever thought you could completely computerize custom sandwich ordering in the 1990s?
Bush is in the video also - the clip I am referring to.
Both Bushes were neo-con liberals who wanted and pushed for bigger government...
neither were conservative
Reagan did not trust Bush, Bush was the liberal who trashed Reagan in the presidential primary...
... and Nancy and Barbara disliked each other severely
You know you are right wing when you think GHWB is a liberal.
Nancy disliking Barbara is likely very simple. Nancy adored Ron in ways few men will ever experience. Anyone who said ill of her husband, even in political sense, was persona non grata and that included family of persona. The image of her at her husbands casket is one of the most moving, tragic and beautiful images in history. Beautiful in the sense you could see unlike any other Ive seen how much she in every fiber of her being, loved and adored him. Tragic of course, for her loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
GWB will not, IMHO, get that level. His mistakes are considered by many historians as being the largest in history. That's saying something!
It's only in comparison to the current admin that he looks good.
I believe GWB is decent human being NOW. The NOW is the important part of that. His skill set did not fit the office and the result was the Great Recession, Forever War and much of the divisiveness we see today.
Looking back at similar debacles in past history, those POTUS'es still rank low.
BUT, we have to separate out the human from the office. When GWB passes (probably he will outlast many of us....), people will respect the passing of a person...a father, husband, etc.
I try to separate out the Politics and History from the individuals. I knew who GW was before he attained the office. I just didn't think he could do so much harm...rather I just thought "here we go, this should be entertaining"....
I have been proven very wrong when I think a POTUS does not matter.
1) Pretty sure Buchanan is safe as worst. Pretty sure some of the turds after Lincoln are right behind him.
2) Trump and Obama are worse than W. For different reasons but both are worse. Not to say W is in any danger of cracking the top 35 presidents.
3) W certainly deserves some of the blame for 2008 but the list should also include ALL of congress and especially senate banking and and finance committees of BOTH parties. A host of Wall Street miscreants who never did a day in jail or even fined.
Forever War. agree there tho for different reasons. We need out of the mid east as much as possible. You cannot "civilize" tribesmen who read one book who think killing civilians leads to an eternal orgy.
As for HW. I liked him.
Hard conservatives loathed him. I knew when reading the thread the first big downer on him would come from the right, not the left.
This would have seemed to make a LOCK on re-election. Yet he lost the bid.
Because of the recession, which he actually caused.
The recession was caused by capital reallocation from the defense sector to other sectors of the economy, and as we know those new sectors were the tech and bio-tech sectors mostly.
The reallocation was triggered by the IFR Treaty (International Force Reduction), which eliminated the US VII Corps from Germany, plus a number of tactical fighter wings and squadrons, and a reduction in naval forces. Additionally, Bush unilaterally withdrew all battlefield tactical nuclear weapons, all tactical nuclear weapons (except a gravity bomb used by the Air Force), plus cancelled the Pershing IIB, which was the follow-on to the Lance missile system, and cancelled more than 1,000 other military contracts.
That's about 1.5 Million workers, plus another 2 Million to 3 Million whose jobs are dependent on those 1.5 Million jobs, and while it was only about 3% of the work-force, it caused a lot of angst, especially from the Media who hyped-it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
1. Gulf War - the Gulf War probably defined Bush with most Americans at the time. A clear victory - of a large battle.
Well, I should certainly hope so, considering you only practiced and rehearsed it for two years before going into battle.
In spite of the fact that the entire US VII Corps, VII Corps Artillery and the Tiger Brigade assigned to NORTHAG was going to be removed from Germany and the units deactivated, someone had a really good deck of Tarot Cards, or a really hot psychic or had a really big brain, because they saw fit to ensure that every one of those units went twice a year to Turkey to conduct desert warfare training in the Turkish desert bordering Iraq.
Given that the Tiger Brigade's mission was to withdraw to the west bank of the Weser River and wait for reinforcements from the US, and VII Corp's mission was to engage and destroy the Soviet Central Army Group and Southern Army Group, I'm not really seeing the need to train for desert warfare.
I've been using Google Earth for about 15 years now, and I still can't find any deserts anywhere in Germany, Poland, the Czech or Slovak republics or Russia.
Maybe someone can help me find those deserts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
He lost re-election for these reasons (IMHO).....
1. He had a bad VP (Quayle) that most people would not have trusted being a heartbeat away.
There was nothing wrong with Dan Quayle, except the Media didn't like him and constantly hounded him. His spelling of potato was a correct dictionary spelling, in spite of the Media's contention that it wasn't and it wasn't any different than people in Ohio saying "pop" when they really mean Pepsi or Coca-Cola.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
2. "No new taxes" - Conservatives held him to this statement that he made, despite the need for new taxes.
It was the wrong thing. You can't kill several Million jobs and then raise taxes, too, without expecting a recession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
3. Triple Threat - The election of Clinton was a three way race with Perot in the deal.
Bush's message was "A thousand points of light." That's all he kept saying, over and over, and that's why Clinton kept saying, "It's the economy, stupid."
People were more interested in a sound economy than "a thousand points of light."
Bush failed to address the issues that interest people most, and that was the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
However, other than signing the ADA, he did not achieve forward progress in the country to any meaningful extent.
You mean he didn't open up the borders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
He was a product of his times and upbringing and a "institutional republican", which is often derided today by his own party voters.
He, and his son, are Neo-Liberal Institutionalists and have no business being in the Republican Party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
On a more personal level, he seemed a good man.
Two of the ships in the Bay of Pigs Invasion were the MSS Barbara and MSS Houston.
"Barbara" as in Barbara Bush, and "Houston" as in Houston, Texas were Bush lived.
He owned those ships and leased them to the CIA for the Bay of Pigs Fiasco JFK created.
I don't think you know as much about him as you think you do.
As I recall, Bush 41 lost re-election due to the economic recession of1992. The first reaction to tax cuts/trickle-down. Then a few years later, Bush 43's tax cuts/trickle-down brought on the Great Recession.
As I recall, Bush 41 lost re-election due to the economic recession of1992. The first reaction to tax cuts/trickle-down. Then a few years later, Bush 43's tax cuts/trickle-down brought on the Great Recession.
On a more personal level, he seemed a good man.[/url]
I'm not a huge fan of 41, but I agree with the quoted comment. I think that HE did what HE believed was the right thing, and for that, I give him credit and honor.
I watched James Baker and Dick Cheney and others talk about him on Face the Nation, or Meet the Press, or whatever show it was, and they were very kind to his memory, as was Chuck Todd and other Left-Leaners.
Some other things that may have defined his Presidency, if my memory serves.
-German Reunification happened under his clock
-He too was instrumental in the fall of the Soviet Union.
-NAFTA was on his clock (Ironic that Trump crapped all over it at the time he was dying)
I think the "No New Taxes" and the "Grocery Store Debackle" are things that happen. It is really unimportant, but it doesn't help him to be relatable to the American People, and that makes it hard to win votes.
Dan Quayle was too dull to be in the office of VP. People can say the press didn't like him, but the fact is that he didn't earn their respect. He was a bad choice for HW, but everyone makes a few bad calls.
All in all, he is rightly remembered as a Patriotic American who served his country faithfully. I didn't love his politics, and still don't, but I have respect for the man. Always have, and have taken some heat for saying so. May he RIP.
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