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How does health care work in a stateless society that doesn't practice capitalism?
I'll go back even a little deeper than that, to the "get the profit motive out of healthcare delivery" comment and ask - why would anyone do the job of providing healthcare in the absence of some tangible benefit for them?
Even in 100% nationalized HC systems, the actual providers (doctors, nurses, etc) are all compensated with money and benefits. So the profit motive is alive and well in even the most socialized of systems, because not one HC delivery system on this planet is 100% pure charitable volunteerism.
So I'd like to hear how we motivate anyone - minus threat of violence inherent to all State solutions - to do a really hard, often thankless job for no compensation (personal profit).
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess
Though I'm not sure why an "anarchist" is pro-Medicare for all consider that the State runs it.
Well, apparently, "profit" is evil, and the sticky wicket for communists of any variety (anarcho-communist? in this case) is that the profit motive is baked into human nature. That's problematic because for most collectivist/communist schemes to work, human nature needs to be either eliminated or forcefully opposed into a new direction. Neither can be done without the State and their monopoly on force and violence.
That's why all prior "communist" systems have been simple oligarchies or dictatorships. The State is necessary to "evolve" the proletariat into a properly motivated collective of humans who are devoid of human nature.
It just goes to show you how the two party system is a joke. The far lefties who want single payer have to understand that people like Barry and Killary are not on their side and are totally in the back pockets of the insurance lobby. This is how they keep you on the plantation though because most people are too stupid to figure it out.
There are endless brands of so called left and right.
What 75% of the US population seems to have in common, regardless of political ideology, is an acute failure to take responsibility for their own health. ‘‘Tis easier to blame big bad government for the cost of healthcare than to substantially reduce our own healthcare risks.
Health insurance is not affordable when you have to subsidies the population so health insurance providers and their stock holders [401k's] can make profit. Obamacare at one time had very generous subsidies which I choose over my employers bare bones plan {worthless} and drawing a $700 a month subsidy. IMO, your plan of very generous subsidy is one of the main culprits of driving up HC cost.
I would like a plan where the free marketers {lol} would have to compete with Medicare on a level playing field which would mean all subsidies would end and health care related stocks would drop like a rock. If you go back and read my previous post I wrote of my support of ending directives and legislation that was taking from the pockets of the people and handing it over to big Pharma. Like they needed our leaders to turn a profit. Sickening.
I agree that more competition in the form of a public option would be a good thing. However, I would note that the Swiss system which is largely based on private insurance with voucher/subsidy support to individuals has much lower prescription drug costs than the USA.
The fact is a profit motive does lead to new innovations in health care and drugs. Both the Swiss and U.S. system rank pretty high on the innovation front (due to the profit motive). That said, the U.S. system (particularly big pharma) is too far to the extreme with profit taking precedence over universal care.
The Swiss seem to have found a reasonable balance between efficiency, universal care, affordability and innovation. The last numbers I saw had the Swiss spending about 11 percent of GDP on healthcare while the US spends 17 percent.
Geez, it's a black and white world for these righties. We're either all laissez a faire capitalisemed out or full on commies. Reality is we pick and choose a little of each because all of either are bad.
The drone lord is at it again, why can’t he leave us alone?
The goal isn’t universal coverage alone, it is to get the profit motive out of healthcare distribution.
Medicare for All legislation would effectively eliminate private health coverage. And talk of greater government influence over health care has alarmed providers that contend Medicare and Medicaid currently pay only a fraction of what it costs to care for beneficiaries.
What will be Left is not Medicare for All ... it will be Medicaid for All.
Any employee who has Medical Insurance through their Employer would lose that Insurance.
Union Employees would lose their Insurance.
ALL Government Employees (Federal, State, Local) would lose their Insurance.
I’m will for them to give this new Utopian Medicare for All a test run.
Do the Test Run on ALL Government Employees, at ALL Levels.
CongressCritters can report back to us in a few years on how well it works.
The elephant in the room is that millions of Americans depend on a paycheck from for profit healthcare. If you have UHC they lose their well paying jobs. Nobody advocates against their own survival. Well..... Lol.
One thing I am sick of from the right is the non sense they spew about the free market. And how much better the private sector delivers on health care over a socialist system. A lot of those opinions are formed by people that can afford to pay 1000 to 2000 a month in health care because they have developed skills to make bank.
But then there are others that are easily the vast majority that are not making that type of money and can't even afford Obamacare with out the subsidy. That is not free market health care when a majority of people need a subsidy. Is it free market health care that with out employers offering the benefit of health care insurance most people could not afford insurance high rates when they are making very low wages?
Or how about this one that the Trump administration is working on fixing of getting drugs priced on the world pricing system where Americans are paying the same price as rest of world. See, all those stories we have heard of people journeying to Canada to fill scripts and save money. That was the so called fake free market that the right chirps about in action.
Anybody with eyes can see how this came about where U S citizen paid more in drugs then the rest of the world and the big free market excuse is " well there is research and development" Yep that is free market all right lets burn U S citizens so Canada can have cheaper drugs. Why would our leaders lets us get ripped off? easy answer because their palms are greased by big pharma. Even the great Obama did nothing about this and I do not hear any of the leaders talking about it.
Or how about the gag rule where the Pharmacist could not tell you that your drugs would be cheaper if you did not use your health insurance? Yep, there is so much free market in health care and who wrote that into law? the fake free marketers that are really fascist { co operation between corporations and the state}.
I lean right and I am sick of fake fiscal conservatives and their free market non sense and support Medicare for all and I support those changes that Trump is making.
Repped and wish I could give you more reps. Perfectly stated.
Switzerland relies on a competitive yet much-regulated system of private insurers. Very similar to the ACA but with more generous subsidies, more competition/choices AND universal coverage.
Switzerland has better access and quality than Britain's "socialized" medicine model. Yet the Swiss health care system delivers a universal high quality of care across a range of measures and invests more in innovation that fuels new knowledge and, ultimately, better treatments that we all benefit from.
I'd vote for something like the Swiss system before I'd go for Medicare for All though I'd say a Medicare for All plan is better than what we've got now in the U.S.
Switzerland is one of the few countries that relies entirely on private insurance. No one can be denied for any reason, including age and medical condition. Regardless of age/ medical condition, premiums are the same, based on income. Reportedly, the government subsidizes 40% of premiums based on income, lack thereof.
Swiss Insurers are not permitted to profit off basic plans. They make their profits off enhanced Supplimental plans that help pay for that which the basic plans do not. A private insurer is not allowed to sell enhanced plans unless they sell basic plans. This is very different than the schemes in the US whereby states allow insurers to sell lucrative Large Group and Medicare Supplimental plans and not sell Individual Plans either on exchanges or independent of exchanges.
Healthcare is delivered at the canton ( state) level in Switzerland. Those with Basic Plans are limited to medical attention only in their own Canton and there is limited choice of healthcare providers. The enhanced plans create more options.
There are annual deductibles and co- pays for services.
Perhaps the biggest difference is that 99% of the Swiss population complies with the Individual Mandate. It is a risk adverse culture. Conversely, the Individual Mandate in the US was abolished this year. Some may call this freedom. Others may call it policy to encourage a lack of personal responsibility.
Obesity is a global challenge. The obesity rate in Switzerland is about 14.9%. The rate in the US is closing in on 40%. It matters. The Swiss take more personal responsibility for their own health than US people do. The Swiss Diabetes rate is half that of the US.
Where is the Trumpcare that Trump promised? You know the one that promised coverage for all with low deductibles and low payments!
Get over it Obama promised that!
Like shovel ready jobs that wasn't so shovel ready or Cash for Clunkers why would you think Obama could improve on our healthcare system with community organizer ideas [socialism] face it Obama suxs!
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