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The thing about Mattis is that everyone respected him. Left, right, non-military, military, etc. He was a guy that EVERYONE pretty much agreed would do a good job. You just dont find much of that in any administration.
^If everyone respected General Mattis, then why did Obama fire him with a note from his command position? Where was the uprising from the democrats back then? Oh, that's right, if Obama did it, it was considered gold.
^If everyone respected General Mattis, then why did Obama fire him with a note from his command position? Where was the uprising from the democrats back then? Oh, that's right, if Obama did it, it was considered gold.
Mattis was not Secretary of Defense when Obama fired him. They disagreed on Iran.
So, in conclusion, pro-war Mattis is at odds with anti-war Trump? That sound about right?
Wrong! Mattis couldn't stand to work for a boneheaded nutcase (Trump) much longer. Can you blame him? This dufus administration is a flaming dumpster fire.
I’ve openly supported Trump over Mattis, and I’m as liberal as it gets.
You right wingers ALWAYS chose the military over Obama no matter how stupidly warmongerish they were. Give me a case where you supported Obama over the wishes of the military?
They never did. Ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64
Here is the issue as I see it...Trump announced a major strategic decision on social media without consulting advisors, briefing the relevant agencies, or devising any plan or time table....now pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan are legitimate debates. But even Turkey's Erdogan who wants this move is shocked and telling Trump to slow down. Jim Mattis resignation letter is historic and was nothing short of a vote of No Confidence of the President to the entire military and intelligence apparatus.
YES. THAT is the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17
So, in conclusion, pro-war Mattis is at odds with anti-war Trump? That sound about right?
Nope. Pro NATO - we need our Allies Mattis is at odds with pro-authoritarian Trump who bends over for Putin, Saudi Arabia, and now Turkey.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713
There is no discussion of the US leaving NATO, and lies by the press notwithstanding, Trump has never suggested that he desires to leave NATO, or anything that can reasonably be misconstrued as that.
It is great that the UK pulls its own weight militarily. If the other countries in NATO were matching the UK's spending and sense of national responsibility, we would not be having this discussion right now.
A lot of these multinational arrangements are marked by serious flaws. One of the greatest flaws is that once you get an initial agreement by all of the countries to participate in these structures, it is almost impossible to reform them later or hold individual countries accountable for basic responsibilities, such as NATO countries all paying their fair share for their national defense under the treaty.
Trump is doing what he can to try to get some reforms and improvements accomplished in NATO, reforms which very much need to be achieved. Most of the same countries that the UK is leaving in the EU are apparently offended that they are being asked to pay their own way and that they are being told they cannot just leach off of the US anymore. And now with Brexit, they are also going to be told that they cannot leach off of the UK either.
See the pattern here? It is simple to fix. Simple, but not easy. The self-exulted Europeans are going to have to fund their socialist Utopia project out of their own funds and that includes military defense.
It is not Trump who is the problem here. It is the Europeans and their fiscal irresponsibility.
Trump has previously threarened to leave and has also stated that US might not uphold Article 5.
This has already done massive damage to NATO's credibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian
Donald Trump has come close to suggesting the US might unilaterally withdraw from Nato if other member states fail to dramatically increase their spending on the military bloc.
According to diplomats, he plunged the Nato summit into chaos on Thursday by saying the US would “go it alone” if European states failed to boost their spending to at least 2% of GDP by January.
Trump even had a conversation regarding NATO in which Retired general Keith Kellogg, the National Security Council chief of staff, argued for Trump to withdraw and that NATO was "obsolete" and the US was being "used" by allies, along with Jared Kushner who argued the US was losing money on NATO.
It was only Mattis's intervention (along with Joseph Dunford, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff) that persuaded Trump to stay in NATO, but Trump told Mattis "You can have your Nato. But you become the rent collector."
The UK can't guarantee that Germany or any other country will meet the 2%, indeed Germany has basically said it's nothing to do with Trump, and other countries might also not meet the 2%.
Whilst if Mattis is replaced by someone with similar oppinions to General Keith Kellogg, then NATO could be in real danger.
Quote:
The dinner meeting to decide Nato policy was convened in the Red Room of the White House at 6.30pm on February 8, 2017 by then chief of staff Reince Priebus. US policy had to be settled ahead of a speech by Mattis in Munich a week later.
Trump insisted on talking about the gossip of the day, until dessert, when Priebus said "We've really got to deal with the Nato issue."
Retired general Keith Kellogg, the National Security Council chief of staff, argued Nato was "obsolete" and the US was being "used" by allies. Mattis and Joseph Dunford, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, argued in favour of Nato, according to the book.
Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, also interjected, saying the US was only losing "pennies on the dollar" in supporting Nato.
Mattis expressed confidence Germany would meet the target of paying 2pc of GDP on defence. He added: "If you didn't have Nato you'd have to invent it. There's no way Russia could win a war if they took on Nato."
At the end of the dinner Trump told Mattis the US would support Nato but allies must pay.
He told Mattis: "You can have your Nato. But you become the rent collector." Mattis reportedly laughed and nodded.
Wrong! Mattis couldn't stand to work for a boneheaded nutcase (Trump) much longer. Can you blame him? This dufus administration is a flaming dumpster fire.
so why is he waiting till the end of Feb? why no immediately?
Trump ran on ending endless occupations and endless wars.....Afghanistan is next....I support it. Rand Paul and Ron Paul support it......we can't continue nation building other countries with endless occupations.
Trump wasn't the only running on ending these wars. Obama during his first run was also claiming he would get us out of these endless wars, and people like me supported him for it because I'm tired of these wars that aren't doing anything but creating bigger problems.
so why is he waiting till the end of Feb? why no immediately?
Oh, I realize these things are not easy to understand.
Mattis is giving two months' notice so that there is time to find a replacement and have a smooth transition.
Mick Mulvaney could step in as acting Secretary of Defense, but then who would be acting Chief of Staff?
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