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Old 12-28-2018, 10:36 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Hopefully.

But we must work in that direction while we are still here. That requires a broader push than just for more welfare to help people as welfare just helps legitimize the sources of wealth distribution (private capital).

I understand it’s necessary right now but fighting for worker cooperatives, non-profit Healthcare, less intrusive and more progressive tax laws, limiting consumer mentality, and ending imperial ambitions must be the goal.

Not just protect social security (as that is a temporary band-Aid, not a fix).
You will get no argument here. The thing is, IMO much of this will be done for us when other countries succeed in undercutting the dollar. It's going to happen.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:36 AM
 
45,101 posts, read 26,262,470 times
Reputation: 24832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Hopefully.

But we must work in that direction while we are still here. That requires a broader push than just for more welfare to help people as welfare just helps legitimize the sources of wealth distribution (private capital)
What of those who don't wish to have their labor taken for the purposes of someone else's "welfare"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I understand it’s necessary right now but fighting for worker cooperatives,
what if one doesnt wish to work within a cooperative?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
non-profit Healthcare
what of those who seek to practice healthcare outside of the collective and those who seek services outside of the "non-profit" system?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
less intrusive and more progressive tax laws,
what of those who wish to keep the fruits of their labor and spend them on what they have determined to be their own needs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
limiting consumer mentality
what of those who have wants and needs outside of a central authority?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
ending imperial ambitions must be the goal.
Okay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Not just protect social security (as that is a temporary band-Aid, not a fix).
What of those who wish to provide for their own retirement (or not)?
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:51 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,499,977 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
What of those who don't wish to have their labor taken for the purposes of someone else's "welfare"?

what if one doesnt wish to work within a cooperative?
what of those who seek to practice healthcare outside of the collective and those who seek services outside of the "non-profit" system? what of those who wish to keep the fruits of their labor and spend them on what they have determined to be their own needs? what of those who have wants and needs outside of a central authority?
Okay

What of those who wish to provide for their own retirement (or not)?
The answer to all your questions is “die.”
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,387,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
The answer to all your questions is “die.”
No, I’m about to explain it.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,387,096 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
What of those who don't wish to have their labor taken for the purposes of someone else's "welfare"?

what if one doesnt wish to work within a cooperative?
what of those who seek to practice healthcare outside of the collective and those who seek services outside of the "non-profit" system? what of those who wish to keep the fruits of their labor and spend them on what they have determined to be their own needs? what of those who have wants and needs outside of a central authority?
Okay

What of those who wish to provide for their own retirement (or not)?
1. Providing for yourself is fine. But when people produce more than they can consume/store, that good becomes a public good. Like in my point about tribal societies, private industrial capital has lead to the accumulation of goods beyond ones own capacity through ownership of land and facilities via paperwork backed by the state. You can only claim ownership by that which you operate under, nothing more, nothing less.

2. Practicing healthcare has been a thing for thousands of years since witch doctors, making it a profitable business is new. Doing favors and even trading labor for some good is fine, but monetary payment is used to purchase excess control of goods, lands, and services. If excess control is no longer allowed by the state then money would lose its value. Furthermore communities will be free to organize services for the Mutual benefit of everyone (doctors would provide their services which will help other labor classes in the town to produce more).

3. Cooperatives are just a claim on ownership, all actions on shared means take place with mutual agreement of others involved.

If you wish to work with others, then you must come up with a democratic or consensus based agreement on how the work relationship should work. If you want everyone to follow your orders then you must convince them, not hold your power via threat of state intervention. The owners (workers) are the ones that utilize those means.

And taxes are not a permanent solution as they are used to retain corporate control and organize human life based off of planning, something I don’t support.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:10 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,499,977 times
Reputation: 8094
Libertarianism is the only moral system that gives people freedom.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
There simply isn't a one size fits all, will work no matter what belief. There simply isn't. I've asked many times over how a pure Libertarian society will work and no one, absolutely no one can come anywhere close to providing an answer outside of living like Ted Kaczynski did or going back to something close to the 19th Century. You may like that (you in the big picture) but you don't or you wouldn't be here typing on the internet.

Capitalists love Socialism when it benefits them. Socialists are rarely if ever actually arguing for pure Socialism and Libertarians while absolutely correct on things like war and allowing people many freedoms we try and squash today, can not make their system work in a large society that is not going away.

I don't know why people refuse to accept that no one actually wants what they claim.
I wasn't put on this earth to figure out life for you.

And my "punishment" for not being at your beck & call shouldn't be slavery.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:41 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I wasn't put on this earth to figure out life for you.

And my "punishment" for not being at your beck & call shouldn't be slavery.
I give no thought as to what you do.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I give no thought as to what you do.
Sure you do.

If not I wouldn't be in your social contract.

I'm integral in the lives of others...apparently.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,409,969 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolom View Post
Libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke pot.


huh


I am a constitutionalist conservative, who supports making cannabis, that liberals made illegal in 1937 legal..there are 1001 uses for cannabis other than getting high.


I also want to see the government out of the marriage business, and out of my body, too include my healthcare
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