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Your statement would rank mostly true 20+ years ago, but things have changed. What things?
the public sector pay is creeping closer and closer to private sector pay. They've had to do this to retain personnel. They don't just raise public sector raises out of sheer desire. They do it because they can't attract and retain people.
public sector workers seldom experience unemployment, which is rampant in the private sector True. However, I would not call unemployment rampant in the private sector. We have been at low unemployment for quite some time now. Maybe there are pockets in the U.S. where that is true.
in the public sector you are able to work until retirement age of 65, while in the private sector, your done at 50 or when you reach $100k That's totally made up bunk right there.
When you take all of this into account, I'll bet the government workers are making MORE than private sector workers doing similar jobs, and I'll bet its not even close. In some fields they are making more, in some much less. I think the only proven demographic that is making more in public sector job versus private is the "high school graduate." The federal government employed many high school grads up through the 80s. These people have worked their way up into leadership positions (and often are very effective, great leaders). No matter how good you are in the private sector, you seem to need a bachelor's degree to be a receptionist. In that area, the CBO has shown that those with only a high school diploma have fared better in the government over the private sector. However, if you are an attorney, doctor, researcher, scientist, meteorologist, geologist, chemist, etc. you make far less in the government than you would in the private sector. The federal government has outsourced just about 100% of their janitorial, secretarial, electrical, plumbing, etc. workforce. What's left are accountants, attorneys, scientists, etc. So yeah, when you average out salaries, the statistics often show higher wages in the government, yet, it's an unfair comparison.
Two examples that come to mind are College Professors, and public school administrators.
It was my impression that college professors make pretty good money. My nephew is one at Princeton. The pay is six figures.
. Only those at the very top - GS15s and SES - earn less. These would be those with grad degrees, and the doctors, lawyers, PhDs, college professors you are thinking of. They constitute about 15% of the government
But for the remaining 85%, the opposite is true. Studies show that the average worker with a college degree earns slightly more than their private sector counterpart and those with only a high school diploma make substantially more. And in both cases, their benefits are also substantially higher.
Government workers are deluded when in comes to reality. My neighbor, a high school graduate, wanted me to go in an expensive cruise with her. When I told her I couldn't afford it, she said that if she, a government worker with a high school degree could, then a professional in the private sector with a college degree surely could. We then admitted salaries. She told me she earned $113,000. And she was shocked when I told her I earned $85,000 (which I think is quite good).
I vote in EVERY election, and study the sample ballots and research the candidates & issues.
I don't EVER recall voting for, or against, any government pensions. So, how to they exist? They must be created and awarded by government workers for government workers.
If so, where are the checks and balances?
I keep reading where government pension funds are all underfunded, and heading for a train wreck, but I keep scratching my head wondering how they got there in the first place, & how can that be fair to taxpayers.
Please enlighten me.
No, government pensions are not fair to taxpayers but they have gotten the political power to get them....yeah, it's a future train wreck, not sure how we avoid it....at least Europe will go through it before we do...watch and see figures out how to survive it.
. Only those at the very top - GS15s and SES - earn less. These would be those with grad degrees, and the doctors, lawyers, PhDs, college professors you are thinking of. They constitute about 15% of the government
But for the remaining 85%, the opposite is true. Studies show that the average worker with a college degree earns slightly more than their private sector counterpart and those with only a high school diploma make substantially more. And in both cases, their benefits are also substantially higher.
Government workers are deluded when in comes to reality. My neighbor, a high school graduate, wanted me to go in an expensive cruise with her. When I told her I couldn't afford it, she said that if she, a government worker with a high school degree could, then a professional in the private sector with a college degree surely could. We then admitted salaries. She told me she earned $113,000. And she was shocked when I told her I earned $85,000 (which I think is quite good).
You actually seem a little bitter about this. Personal anectdotes are meaningless.
Do you think that just because you have a degree and she is only a H.S. grad that automatically there is a problem here and proof of egregious pay parity? Are your two jobs absolutely identical? I'm sure you'll tell me they are for the purposes of this message board and to make your point.
I worked private sector for well over 20 years. I decided to go into the federal government because I got tired of changing companies every 5 years when the contract ran out and, as a woman in a male dominated field, I felt like I couldn't get any further ahead. I was lucky, though, in my last job I got to stay at the same company for 12 years. When I went to the federal government, I lost $15,000 in pay and started all over again with benefits and leave accrual. But I like that I don't have to worry about bidding wars between defense contractors. I took the very same type of job that I had in the private sector. I did the exact same work, but this time as a federal employee. The only difference? I ended up supervising a department with 10 people in it and I didn't just perform "tasks" as they were handed to me. I have the ultimate fiscal/legal responsibility now for everything I sign and produce. If I do something wrong, fiscally, even unknowingly/innocently, I am on the hook for criminal penalties with the government. Again, nothing I ever had to even concern myself with in the private sector--I could just let someone else deal with that. And there's more I could go on about. There are days when I dream about going back to my old job--and yes, I've been asked and it would be for about $25K more than I earn now. But despite all the perks of leaving federal service (and these days I get closer to it), I love my job. I love that I get to actually make the decisions on how things get done as opposed to reacting to them.
So while you friend might be some non-deserving and clueless nitwit, that doesn't mean the rest of the federal workforce is.
You do realize the Federal workers do not get SS ,right?Is the Federal Government in the Business of running the country ? How do other business's attract good qualified employees, with benefits ,perks etc. They provide what other companies provide to attract and keep qualified employees.It sounds like you're upset you don't have a goverment job.
You vote for your elected Officials who vote on things concerning the Federal goverment voters do not vote on every contract the Federal goverment has or does to conduct business,to suggest anything else is no smart.
You do realize that since 1987 then newly hired and all subsequently hired federal employees are in the social security system as the retirement plan went from the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS)? And they paid into the social security program starting in 1984 in an interim plan as the change over from CSRS to Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) took place.
You actually seem a little bitter about this. Personal anectdotes are meaningless.
Do you think that just because you have a degree and she is only a H.S. grad that automatically there is a problem here and proof of egregious pay parity? Are your two jobs absolutely identical? I'm sure you'll tell me they are for the purposes of this message board and to make your point.
I worked private sector for well over 20 years. I decided to go into the federal government because I got tired of changing companies every 5 years when the contract ran out and, as a woman in a male dominated field, I felt like I couldn't get any further ahead. I was lucky, though, in my last job I got to stay at the same company for 12 years. When I went to the federal government, I lost $15,000 in pay and started all over again with benefits and leave accrual. But I like that I don't have to worry about bidding wars between defense contractors. I took the very same type of job that I had in the private sector. I did the exact same work, but this time as a federal employee. The only difference? I ended up supervising a department with 10 people in it and I didn't just perform "tasks" as they were handed to me. I have the ultimate fiscal/legal responsibility now for everything I sign and produce. If I do something wrong, fiscally, even unknowingly/innocently, I am on the hook for criminal penalties with the government. Again, nothing I ever had to even concern myself with in the private sector--I could just let someone else deal with that. And there's more I could go on about. There are days when I dream about going back to my old job--and yes, I've been asked and it would be for about $25K more than I earn now. But despite all the perks of leaving federal service (and these days I get closer to it), I love my job. I love that I get to actually make the decisions on how things get done as opposed to reacting to them.
So while you friend might be some non-deserving and clueless nitwit, that doesn't mean the rest of the federal workforce is.
You just told me personal anecdotes are meaningless, and then you give me your own!
The fact is that most federal employees earn more than their counterparts in the private sector, excepting those at or near the GS-15 and SES levels. And all get better benefits. As I said, the 15% or so with grad degrees and high-ranking jobs earn less in government. But the remaining 85%, with a bachelors degree or high school diploma! earn more, on average, and often significantly more.
Sorry, it's the truth. I'd have less of a problem with it if government workers just admitted that they earn more (with the exceptions I raised above), get better benefits, and have better job security. It's that they ask taxpayers to fund their superior arrangement, and then deny it exists.
You just told me personal anecdotes are meaningless, and then you give me your own!
The fact is that most federal employees earn more than their counterparts in the private sector, excepting those at or near the GS-15 and SES levels. And all get better benefits. As I said, the 15% or so with grad degrees and high-ranking jobs earn less in government. But the remaining 85%, with a bachelors degree or high school diploma! earn more, on average, and often significantly more.
Sorry, it's the truth. I'd have less of a problem with it if government workers just admitted that they earn more (with the exceptions I raised above), get better benefits, and have better job security. It's that they ask taxpayers to fund their superior arrangement, and then deny it exists.
That's why I gave you my personal anecdotes to prove they are meaningless. They are the exact opposite of your anecdotes. The point was that personal stories mean nothing and they diverge greatly. You stated your as something that happens all the time and I am telling you it doesn't.
But, okay, I'll admit this. For me, the government was the better way to go. Rather than just get a employer match 401K, I now get the same type of 401K and I will get a small pension on top of that which will come to about $20,000 per year (which I contribute 4.1% to). I also can carry my health insurance into retirement if I want to (of course I will pay an increased retiree premium for it but it is still partially government funded). Now, I won't take that health insurance because my husband carries health insurance into retirement for the family for $78 per month from his private sector job. So FOR ME the federal job I took nudges out the private sector one had in the areas of job satisfaction (as a woman, there is no glass ceiling), small pension, and stability.
But there are some phenomenal private sector jobs out there. Maybe rare, but my son is 24 years old and is working at a Fortune 500 company. He gets subsized lunch every day, a gym, free parking, outstanding pay, leave, and other benefits as well as incredible flexibilty, and stock options. Good 401K matching. No pension. Stability remains to be seen. But, oh how I would LOVE to be where he is.
My point is escaping you. If people dont watch O’Reilly, his show gets cancelled. If I am one of those potential 6 million viewers and I watch someone else, then I am contributing to his demise. My vote is more powerful in this setting than it is in a presidential election where the pool of potential “votes” is 20X larger. In the end, he was done in because of other issues, but that is not relevant to this discussion.
It didn't escape me, it's just not a very good point. I get that viewers can at times influence what is shown on a particular network. O'Rielly didn't get canned for low Nielsen ratings. He got canned because he was an abusive jerk and the advertisers bailed on him. And they didn't bail because of low ratings.
Sorry, it's the truth. I'd have less of a problem with it if government workers just admitted that they earn more (with the exceptions I raised above), get better benefits, and have better job security. It's that they ask taxpayers to fund their superior arrangement, and then deny it exists.
Why should government workers admit to something that is not true for them? I am part of the 85% who you believe is earning is better than the private sector .I have checked the private sector average salary for the federal jobs I have had over the years and I checked again for my current position due to this topic and I have not and still do not make more than my private sector counterpart. Btw I have years of experience in the federal and state government in addition to my college degree.
That article you linked mentions many factors which if taken into account could change the results in a minor to big way.
As for benefits, it is well known that people who had CSRS is better off than those with FERS. I will not be making out like a bandit when I retire. When I worked for the state government 8% was taken out of my check for pension. My salary in that state job was lower than average for someone with a degree and experience.
I vote in EVERY election, and study the sample ballots and research the candidates & issues.
I don't EVER recall voting for, or against, any government pensions. So, how to they exist? They must be created and awarded by government workers for government workers.
If so, where are the checks and balances?
I keep reading where government pension funds are all underfunded, and heading for a train wreck, but I keep scratching my head wondering how they got there in the first place, & how can that be fair to taxpayers.
Please enlighten me.
We work, so they can eat.
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