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Old 12-29-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,340 posts, read 14,262,240 times
Reputation: 27861

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
I think we should start firing politicians and government workers to help save money. And no more corporate subsidies or bennies to crimmigrants.
We did -- back in 2016 when we rejected Hillary. But Trump hasn't gotten the job done either with regards to the debt.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:58 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,617,602 times
Reputation: 18521
If only I could print my own currency....
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,768,093 times
Reputation: 5277
You've got to be studiously ignorant of history to believe that Republicans have *any* interest in reducing the national debt.
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,015 posts, read 27,463,514 times
Reputation: 17332
Quote:
Originally Posted by theedgeoflight View Post
Ya but, the clock was worse under Obama
Ya but, if Hillary was locked up, bla bla bla
Ya but, the fed chairman should be fired
Ya but, ya but, ya but
There ya go trumpies I got a head start for ya.
Good boy.

Now you get it.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:45 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
6,354 posts, read 3,653,965 times
Reputation: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
We did -- back in 2016 when we rejected Hillary. But Trump hasn't gotten the job done either with regards to the debt.
Hillary Clinton would have raised our debt to 85%-95% of GDP, while Donald Trump will raise our debt to 105%-145% of GDP.

Promises and Price Tags: A Fiscal Guide to the 2016 Election | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The only real way out is forward. The economy must now grow large enough to accommodate the new debt. It can be done.
One would hope so. However, if you read law, you might come to a different conclusion.
Why?
$21+ T debt computes to over one trillion ounces of gold stamped into coin. (See : Coinage Act of 1792, et seq, and the USCON)

Whereas, dollar bills (federal reserve notes) are worthless IOUs that cannot be used to pay off the debt. Minus + minus = more minus. (Title 12 USC Sec. 411)
. . .
To compound this problem, the current world supply (est) of gold bullion is 5.9 billion ounces. So what did CONgress borrow to rack up owing 994.1 billion ounces of gold more than is available?
And if the debt and interest were frozen right now, it would take 'only' 7000 years at current mining rates to mine enough gold to pay off the debt.
. . .
Oh, and you cannot challenge the validity of the public debt, pursuant to the 14th amendment, USCON.
. . .
So, yes, the debt is a giant fraud, and no, you cannot do a blippin' thing about it.
Really?
Yup.
FDR declared a STATE OF EMERGENCY in 1933 that has never been ended.
. . . .
Senate Report 93-549
https://archive.org/stream/senate-re...3-549_djvu.txt
War and Emergency Powers Acts
"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
FREEDOMS ... GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION ... HAVE BEEN ABRIDGED BY LAWS ... UNDER EMERGENCY RULE ...

Constitutional U.S.A. (1789 - 1933) R.I.P.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...al-tender.aspx
". . .Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
Interesting how CONgress can use your labor and property to back their worthless IOUs. Of course, you were told that you were underwriting their debt by becoming a contributor via FICA. That's why they're so grateful and willing to give you entitlements. You're human collateral - "soylent greenbacks".

CORRECTION
There IS one thing you can do - withdraw consent from FICA / Socialist inSecurity. However, if enough Americans do that, and cease underwriting the dollar bills, they become totally unacceptable as well as worthless.

Overnight, billionaires become zero-aires.
Fun, fun, fun.


Unfortunately, there is insufficient bullion to ever go back to 'hard money.'

Yeah, we're 'bleeped' if we do, and 'bleeped' if we don't.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:42 PM
 
7,934 posts, read 8,591,003 times
Reputation: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
You've got to be studiously ignorant of history to believe that Republicans have *any* interest in reducing the national debt.
You can't pay off the national debt anyway even if you wanted to. Treasury notes and USD are debt instruments brought into existence with interest attached to them that does not even exist (yet). If you were to pay it off that would mean all the paper cash would be back at the Federal Reserve and no dollars would be owed to any bank. It's a little hard to run an economy that way.
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Old 12-31-2018, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
You've got to be studiously ignorant of history to believe that Republicans have *any* interest in reducing the national debt.
Ditto, for any Democrat.
Read Title 12 USC Sec. 411.

All "dollar bills" (Federal Reserve Notes) are obligations (debt) of the US Gubmint.

Translation into Inglitch: dollar bills are IOUs, denominated in dollars, but are not dollars.

To authorize emitting more dollar bills required - you guessed it - DEFICIT SPENDING.

And you must have more dollar bills to service usury (interest) and the growing economy, lest you strangle it and trigger a recession. That's what happened during the DOT.COM BOOM / BUST.

Congress was surprised by a budget surplus that cut off new notes. And that triggered the subsequent bust.

But but but, you say, such a system is INSANE.
No argument there. But you cannot challenge the validity of the public debt. (See clause 4, 14th amendment, USCON).

Which means nothing can really be done until (a) someone repeals the 14th amendment, and (b) someone dares challenge the fraud inherent in the public debt - as in : "Where's the gold money lent to CONGRESS to substantiate owing 21+ trillion dollars?". And voiding the public debt, also voids the notes, since they're part of the debt. Billionaires become zero-aires overnight.

Unfortunately, even if everyone did the "right thing," as in withdraw consent from FICA and thus under capitalize the notes, ending their fungibility, it would precipitate an economic collapse and disrupt international trade until new agreements could be reached.

And there's certainly insufficient stock of gold and silver bullion to return to a hard money (coin) based economy. Even with a 5000:1 devaluation, it would only work for one year. The next year would precipitate another crisis, as the increase in goods and services vastly outpaces the increase in new bullion.

All is not lost. There is a remedy. But it is verboten to be expressed in the open. No politician dare whisper it aloud. Here's a hint : Congress can 'coin money' (stamp bullion) or 'borrow money.' Congress cannot CREATE bullion (money). Can't give that power to anyone else.

Who else has a power to create a medium of exchange to facilitate trade when barter is insufficient?
(Not government, not banks)
[Jeopardy music playing in the background]
Hint: small print often states "cash value 1/20 cent".
Hint: using them is a right, so there is no "sales tax" charged for their use.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
You can't pay off the national debt anyway even if you wanted to. Treasury notes and USD are debt instruments brought into existence with interest attached to them that does not even exist (yet). If you were to pay it off that would mean all the paper cash would be back at the Federal Reserve and no dollars would be owed to any bank. It's a little hard to run an economy that way.
The national debt is denominated in dollars (gold coin) and not dollar bills (worthless IOUs).
[Silver was demonetized in the Coinage Act of 1873]
Retiring all the dollar bills would not pay off the national debt.

Of course, one might ask CONgress to explain exactly what was lent to them, to rack up owing over $21.9 trillion "dollars".

$21.9 trillion dollars computes to 1,095,000,000,000 ounces of gold stamped into coin.
[1095 billion ounces]

World supply of gold bullion (est) 5.9 billion ounces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
183,600 tonnes x 32151 =5,902,923,600 troy ounces
If coined, pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792, would compute to
● 122,024,260,465.11
● $122 billion dollars

At current mining rates, it would take 7000+ years to mine enough gold to pay off the debt - IF - the principal and interest were frozen right now.

The money does not exist. Nor does the legal tender exist. Nor is the debt legitimate, since Congress never was lent any real money. But clause 4, 14th amendment prevents challenging the validity of the fraudulent debt.
14th amendment, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law . . . shall not be questioned.
America, you've been PUNKED.
REPEAL THE 14th AMENDMENT.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:43 AM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,757,385 times
Reputation: 13420
What time is "death"? I know tooth hurty is time for the dentist.
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