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Sorry. I don't know or do pretzel logic too well...
Simply pointing out what Trump meant/said about pushing through any wall that might stand in the way of your goals does not equate to a belief "it's cool to break a law."
But here again a repeat of the same old tactic, to misrepresent the argument, veer from the point of focus when you can't very well address the real argument such as it is. Something of a Trump epidemic vividly captured in so many of these threads. Not sure I've ever seen anything quite like it...
Well, you sure used pretzel logic in this quote then:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Again I'm all for quoting verbatim, getting things right, in their proper context, but "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
We are talking about immigration and in that clip, that very short clip, which is about a wall, many on the left are going to say see, he said go forward and go through anything...including any walls. Well if illegal immigrants go through a wall, that would be breaking the law, yes?
ETA...
So, you can call it what you want, there was no veering, no misrepresenting, and no tactic....if you cross the border, and there is a wall there, and you go through that wall, you just broke the law.
Last edited by chucksnee; 01-11-2019 at 01:37 PM..
Reports were that Trump is the one who stomped out of the room while Nancy and Chuck sat dumbfounded they still had to deal with such a man, but as you insist of course! Wouldn't want to penetrate that Trump version of reality you are clinging to.
Reminds me a bit of how my wife and I were careful not to ruin the kids fun believing there actually is a Santa Claus...
nancy and chuck are always dumbfounded, not because trump was there, it comes natural to them.
Except Mexico provide asylum and jobs, they refused....and again, that metaphor does not mean break the law, does it?
Again I don't follow pretzel logic too well and in this case I'm trying to simply understand your sentence as written, but Mexico is in no way equipped to deal with the flow of people migrating from Latin America and what jobs are these you think Mexico can provide when Mexico has its own significant poverty and unemployment problems.
I swear I can't imagine how many Americans are so utterly clueless about the nature of these problems that in many ways defy a solution under current circumstances. You would think the people born in these countries CHOSE their circumstances and Americans are somehow smarter to have CHOSEN to be born here instead.
Hell! This country was built on the backs of migrants who came here to escape the problems where they were born, to do better for themselves and their families where opportunity was greater in America. This isn't rocket science, nothing particularly unique to America and nothing new!
Ultimate question is how to deal with this problem in an intelligent humanitarian way rather than describe all these unfortunate people as "rapist drug-dealing criminals."
"Three years ago, the first government plane filled with Syrian refugees fleeing the civil war touched down in Canada."
Not that we necessarily go the way of Canada, but any fool can easily recognize there are miles of difference between Trump's "big beautiful wall" and Canada's approach. Somewhere in that space is what more modern civilized societies like ours, wealthy to boot, should be more seriously considering, like mature adults rather than scared children.
nancy and chuck are always dumbfounded, not because trump was there, it comes natural to them.
I'm dumbfounded too...I never thought we would have a President who would shutdown the Government over a 4th century solution to a 21st century problem
So, a coyote brought all those people to the border...you know where they used tear gas and things like that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Comprehension problems?
Of course I understand what a coyote is....are you saying that in the link below that coyotes brought these people and just dropped them off....that's what I meant about the teargas....
Again I don't follow pretzel logic too well and in this case I'm trying to simply understand your sentence as written, but Mexico is in no way equipped to deal with the flow of people migrating from Latin America and what jobs are these you think Mexico can provide when Mexico has its own significant poverty and unemployment problems. .
Yet they did, because you cannot understand this, does not mean Mexico did not offer.
But he added: "This plan is only for those who comply with Mexican laws, and it's a first step towards a permanent solution for those who are granted refugee status in Mexico."
The plan envisages:
Temporary ID cards and work permits
Medical care
Schooling for migrants' children
Housing in local hostels
"Most migrants said they had no intention of abandoning their plans to head to the US."
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I swear I can't imagine how many Americans are so utterly clueless about the nature of these problems that in many ways defy a solution under current circumstances. You would think the people born in these countries CHOSE their circumstances and Americans are somehow smarter to have CHOSEN to be born here instead. .
No one is saying that, what's being said is they were offered jobs and they refused...
Do tell what is the "solution"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Hell! This country was built on the backs of migrants who came here to escape the problems where they were born, to do better for themselves and their families where opportunity was greater in America. This isn't rocket science, nothing particularly unique to America and nothing new! .
Yes, and how did they do it, legally....utterly amazing people are clueless about what is going on now and what went on then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Ultimate question is how to deal with this problem in an intelligent humanitarian way rather than describe all these unfortunate people as "rapist drug-dealing criminals." .
Such as?
You say you shoot for the truth, yet here again, you tell a lie...trump said "some" not all....I was wondering why you did not address it earlier when I said the same thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
"Three years ago, the first government plane filled with Syrian refugees fleeing the civil war touched down in Canada."
Not that we necessarily go the way of Canada, but any fool can easily recognize there are miles of difference between Trump's "big beautiful wall" and Canada's approach. Somewhere in that space is what more modern civilized societies like ours, wealthy to boot, should be more seriously considering, like mature adults rather than scared children.
Sure as long as they are law abiding, but breaking through a wall means they are breaking the law. Utterly amazing people cannot figure this out.
Quote:
So why has Canada managed to sustain popular acceptance and cross-party support for so much legal immigration? For one thing, the movement of people into the country has generally been so law-abiding and orderly as to be uncontroversial and barely newsworthy. Canada, unlike the U.S., is a country where nearly all arrivals come in through the front door, in the open, during daylight hours.
Pay very close attention to the bolding above.
Look, following the law, not breaking though concrete walls....
I did not know illegal aliens would only kill those that supported trump? Interesting....
Yes, it goes both way....repus and dems.
He is no politician, that's for sure and that is why people hate him, and a lot of the congress critters hate him also...he bucks the system, and that's good, which pisses people off more...
"Some" not all, EVERY time Trump argues for his wall...
Let's not all act the fool. We all know the ploy. It's not much different from the McCarthy era tactics and/or the fears about MLK back in the day, fear put in the hearts of all who would swallow the propaganda suggesting America was being infiltrated by communists all around us.
That crap works of course, regardless the truth of the matter!
There are lots of people who have "bucked the system" but that alone doesn't make someone like Trump a good leader. We're supposed to want people who "buck the system" toward a better way, not backwards! Lenin also "bucked the system." So did Hitler. Gandhi and Jesus too. Tell me all who that have "bucked the system" have turned out to be the ones deserving of our trust and faith. You Trump supporters need to get beyond your love of bucking the system and think about the great many ways the bucking of the system can be good or bad or even a disaster when your leader demonstrates little in the way of integrity, intelligence or concern about fellow man, what really matters to most Americans.
The only 2 stomping their feet and not caring are nancy and chuckie...
They had a plan to take to the president that republicans and dems both agreed to. Trump was going to sign it until he listened to his tv talking heads like Limbaugh. Lindsey Graham was not for a wall at all just a year ago now he is. Mcconnell is hiding, we haven't seen him at all.
Money would be better spent on border agents, judges, and surveillance. The only crisis at the border has been caused by Trump and Sessions and their policies.
Trump is the one stomping his feet for a wall that not many even think will solve anything. He is not used to being told NO.
Well, you sure used pretzel logic in this quote then:
We are talking about immigration and in that clip, that very short clip, which is about a wall, many on the left are going to say see, he said go forward and go through anything...including any walls. Well if illegal immigrants go through a wall, that would be breaking the law, yes?
ETA...
So, you can call it what you want, there was no veering, no misrepresenting, and no tactic....if you cross the border, and there is a wall there, and you go through that wall, you just broke the law.
Say what?
There for a bit I thought you wanted to keep things in proper context, get things right, stay on track...
Not sure why I bother to attempt the guidance here, but just go back to your comment/question #1694.
I tried to explain, answer your question, about what Trump said about a wall way before he started talking about this new big beautiful wall that Mexico would pay for while he was running for president.
Want to rewind or fast-forward back to Trump's wall of today? Okay, but have mercy because these Trump-like gyrations are a little dizzying for average Americans like me...
I think we all assume whatever wall that stands in front of our goals is worth overcoming -- within the confines of the law -- of course. On the other hand, I don't know all that many people who will let the law stand in the way of them getting their family out of harms way to safety, or to eat, or escape violence and death, so needles to say..., not all is so black-and/or-white, right and/or wrong when people are facing desperate circumstances.
Also needless to say, this doesn't excuse or advocate for lawlessness, but it does require understanding and policy that best addresses these realities about people in these circumstances, the great majority who are not the sorts of criminals Trump and his supporters want everyone to believe this is all about.
I'm actually surprised it did as well as it did. It was pretty dumb to start with.
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Go Fund Me Wall Fails
