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I can drive to places in an hour and a half and take pictures that would demonstrate to you (unless your zealot) the idiocy of building a wall way the hell out there in extremely rugged terrain 100 or more miles from anything at all except some range cattle. There's no roads, there's no infrastructure, there's no concrete plants. Just the roads that would have to built to access the areas for delivery of materials would be another interstate system full of new road construction. Just to get materials there. Where do the workers stay when they're out there? Where do they eat? The logistics are insanely ridiculous and anyone that lives out here knows that. Walls belong where they are economically feasible. Other methods belong where they are not.
It has been repeated here in this thread countless times and I will repeat it yet again:
There are parts of the border that are impossible to navigate. In those areas, no wall is necessary
Some of those areas you describe don't sound like they couldn't be navigated. If there are cattle around, then a ranch is in the area. In fact, ranchers who live right on the border talk about seeing steady streams of illegals on their properties. Did you know that coyotes will dump illegals in spots like you describe and tell them that Phoenix is a 20 minute walk from there? That's how many of them die---extreme heat and no water and some get disoriented. A good barrier will deter the vast majority from even trying. In other words, good barriers do save lives.
I can drive to places in an hour and a half and take pictures that would demonstrate to you (unless your zealot) the idiocy of building a wall way the hell out there in extremely rugged terrain 100 or more miles from anything at all except some range cattle. There's no roads, there's no infrastructure, there's no concrete plants. Just the roads that would have to built to access the areas for delivery of materials would be another interstate system full of new road construction. Just to get materials there. Where do the workers stay when they're out there? Where do they eat? The logistics are insanely ridiculous and anyone that lives out here knows that. Walls belong where they are economically feasible. Other methods belong where they are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
It has been repeated here in this thread countless times and I will repeat it yet again:
There are parts of the border that are impossible to navigate. In those areas, no wall is necessary
Some of those areas you describe don't sound like they couldn't be navigated. If there are cattle around, then a ranch is in the area. In fact, ranchers who live right on the border talk about seeing steady streams of illegals on their properties. Did you know that coyotes will dump illegals in spots like you describe and tell them that Phoenix is a 20 minute walk from there? That's how many of them die---extreme heat and no water and some get disoriented. A good barrier will deter the vast majority from even trying. In other words, good barriers do save lives.
If he can drive to these areas (4-wheel drive?) no doubt illegals can cross on foot. I took what he wrote to mean the logistical issues of building (transporting raw materials, housing workers). These factors are not problematic for the urban fencing or to drop off vehicular barriers but Trump's been talking about tunnel-defeating footers etc.
At a minimum they substantially add to the costs, which is why trying to figure out the numbers is difficult. It is not clear whether estimates include only the wall or technology and additional border agents. Might we end up with Homeland Security deferring to Trump's desire for wall photo pics but less real security - at least dollar for dollar?
The problem is that the Trump-trust-factor is really low here. Even if proceeding, it would make so much more sense to first acquire the land - or figure how what can be acquired with timelines. Design around gaps. Develop total cost estimates (that including planting the wall not just straight construction costs). If there is a "hot spot" then sure add footage. Repair. Reinforce.
In the interim, keep monitoring trends. CBP reports apprehensions are down from 1.6 million in 2,000 to 303,916 in 2017. Birthrates in Mexico are falling, reducing pressure. More self-deport than enter - and that without mandatory e-verify. The current issue are increased numbers from Central America who apply for asylum at the POE. Sure, some enter outside the ports but the Trump administration is trying (so far unsuccessfully) to limit applications to port-entry only. Turning to legislation instead of executive orders might help.
CPB is desperate for expanded infrastructure in the ports to prevent "catch-and-release." The new agreements that asylum seekers wait in Mexico for USCIS appointments cover only single men.
No one pretends this will be easy. Trump working with other countries for international agreements or with Congress for needed legislation so he doesn't keep getting overturned in the Courts would be a plus.
This shutting down the government and threatening national emergencies not so much. What he's doing is spending good will that might be used to at least attempt reforms like an end to chain migration. It's not going to be easy for no argument Democratic Progressives have organized to resist. But Trump holds some responsibility here for first turning to dogwhistle politics. Democrats were never wall-happy but they were not - until Trump - wall-adverse.
Trump was perfectly willing to give up the wall (albeit with the obligatory scowls) in December until Coulter and Limbaugh intervened.
You shouldn't have a problem with one being built no matter who pays for it.
Yes, I have asked these people who keep demanding that Mexico pay for the wall why they weren't upset when the actual wall bill was passed back in 2006 and it was to be soley funded by the taxpayer. I never get an answer. Trump never said that Mexico would pay for the wall directly with a check. He has a plan though and I have posted it many times. Here goes again.
So...You have no problem giving billions of dollars in aid to corrupt banana republic countries---money that goes into the pockets of the corrupt oligarchy. Yet you get all worked up when it comes to protecting our own borders. That's simply despicable.
Yes, I have asked these people who keep demanding that Mexico pay for the wall why they weren't upset when the actual wall bill was passed back in 2006 and it was to be soley funded by the taxpayer. I never get an answer. Trump never said that Mexico would pay for the wall directly with a check. He has a plan though and I have posted it many times. Here goes again.
If he can drive to these areas (4-wheel drive?) no doubt illegals can cross on foot.
...
Good post. I just wanted to clarify that yes, miles of two track road and 4 wheel drive to get there. It's gorgeous country for a desert rat and I love tooling around out there. I've seen illegals out there maybe twice in 35 years. People can and do cross out there in the middle of nowhere. But road access on the Mexican side is also an issue, good long swaths aren't accessible. So the numbers are very small and don't warrant a giant wall especially if we're not going to patrol more often which would likely solve the problem without the wall.
Some of these areas are where they find illegals dead pretty routinely. Speaks to their desperation, I believe. I wouldn't last long hiking for a couple hundred miles in that country that's for sure. We can do better out there but a wall isn't the answer.
What happened to his "Day 1" action? He's had over 2 years to implement his "Day 1" move. Was it a lie? A fantasy? Or what was it??????
Why do you even care?
It's not like you can vote in US elections.
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