Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would like nothing more than a 2 state solution, where they could live side by side in peace, which has been offered to the Palestinians numerous times, and turned down. The last offer they turned down gave them 95% of their demands. What kind of deal between 2 nations offers 100% to one country? I think that was the point I gave up on them, as did the Israelis.
I think if they were offered the same deal today, they might take it, so who knows. Maybe that would be the way to go.
If they are holding out for “right of return”, then there will never be peace, because that means the end of a Jewish state.
It's been years since I've followed the peace negotiations. My general recollection is that the issue that has no solution is the "Law of Return" - for which there is no practicable solution. Now that may well be part of your 5% but to discount it for that reason is disingenuous. Still ... my take back in the 1980s was that even while remaining a Jewish state the Israelis were creating some enormous within-state problems for themselves in how Israeli Palestinians were treated.
Who knows. Maybe it was just Israelis showing off for a then very young and very pretty EveryLady. But it appeared dysfunctional in the long term. And then the Intifadas came with subsequent visits sadder. I kept thinking it did not have to have been that way. Just my take on it (back then) ...
Last edited by EveryLady; 01-06-2019 at 11:31 AM..
She didn't wipe Israel off the map. She placed a post-it note NEXT TO Israel on a map that did not have Palestine on it.
That's open to interpretation. To me, it looked like she was saying that all of Israel is or should be Palestine. If you are correct and she meant Palestine in addition to Israel, no problem. I'm in favor of a two-state solution, as Israel has repeatedly offered since 1948. The Arabs always turned their offers down.
Get off it. The Israelis are jerks to the Palestinians and calling them out on that has nothing to do with antisemitism. And I would say that Republican love for Israel has had more to do with ME politics than it has to do with religious sympathies. You know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If Nazis lived in the Middle East and hated the Iranians, the Republicans would be cozying up to them too.
And the Palestinians aren't jerks to Isrselis? Their elected leadership, Hamas, is sworn to their destruction. Very nice.
I care because I am Jewish, and I know that much of the anti-Israel zeal on the left is driven by antisemites. If we give i to them, it is condoning anti-Semitism, and things we get much, much worse for American Jews.
Maybe you don't care because you're not Jewish, and Israel's destruction won't impact you?
I'm not unsympathetic here, but maybe that works to blind you to some of the complexities. For example, I'm not Jewish but my long-term SO was. He was a profound leftist (think SDS) but when it came to Israel there was no one who was more rightwing. It was one of the few subjects that we simply did not discuss. For all the emotional ties between us, I would have at that moment become "the enemy." Best to keep the topic restricted to whether leftover crabs might be stored in the fridge.
BTW, he was told by his still distraught mother at the age five how her family had been murdered in the Holocaust. He was too young, at least for the amount of emotion then dumped on him. Perhaps ironically, that created in him the sense of injustice that led him to leftwing politics - EXCEPT when it came to Israel.
That's open to interpretation. To me, it looked like she was saying that all of Israel is or should be Palestine. If you are correct and she meant Palestine in addition to Israel, no problem. I'm in favor of a two-state solution, as Israel has repeatedly offered since 1948. The Arabs always turned their offers down.
What do you think about Trump's handling of the Khashoggi incident? What do you think about the cozy relationship that the US has with the Saudis?
It's been years since I've followed the peace negotiations. My general recollection is that the issue that has no solution is the "Law of Return" - for which there is no practicable solution. Now that may well be part of your 5% but to discount it for that reason is disingenuous. Still ... my take back in the 1980s was that even while remaining a Jewish state the Israelis were creating some enormous within-state problems for themselves in how Israeli Palestinians were treated.
Who knows. Maybe it was just Israelis showing off for a then very young and very pretty EveryLady. But it did think it dysfunctional in the long term. And then the Intifadas came with subsequent visits sadder. I kept thinking it did not have to have been that way. Just my take on it (back then) ...
I believe “Right of return” was the true roadblock for the Palestinians. From what I remember, in that 5% was the trading of lands. A small piece of Palestinian land that was majority Jewish, to be traded for a much larger piece of Israeli land which was predominantly Palestinian.
As I said, the Palestinians have to give up on “right of return” if there is ever to be peace. “Right of return” will never happen because that is essentially the end of the Jewish state.
I'm not unsympathetic here, but maybe that works to blind you to some of the complexities. For example, I'm not Jewish but my long-term SO was. He was a profound leftist (think SDS) but when it came to Israel there was no one who was more rightwing. It was one of the few subjects that we simply did not discuss. For all the emotional ties between us, I would have at that moment become "the enemy." Best to keep the topic restricted to whether leftover crabs might be stored in the fridge.
BTW, he was told by his still distraught mother at the age five how her family had been murdered in the Holocaust. He was too young, at least for the amount of emotion then dumped on him. Perhaps ironically, that created in him the sense of injustice that led him to leftwing politics - EXCEPT when it came to Israel.
There is a lot of nuance involved with this topic. I for one believe that if the U.S. does not firmly stand by, and support, the existence of Israel, then it is condoning its destruction and in doing so sending a message that the survival of Jews is not important. That message will embolden antisemites, and Jews worldwide will have no "safe harbor" to which to flee.
Re the Holocaust and how that might impact my view on this subject, similar to your boyfriend's experience, my grandparents lost entire families - including their own parents - and my parents lost many cousins. Perhaps that is why I see the absolute necessity for a Jewish State, should the level of persecution rise again.
I believe “Right of return” was the true roadblock for the Palestinians. From what I remember, in that 5% was the trading of lands. A small piece of Palestinian land that was majority Jewish, to be traded for a much larger piece of Israeli land which was predominantly Palestinian.
As I said, the Palestinians have to give up on “right of return” if there is ever to be peace. “Right of return” will never happen because that is essentially the end of the Jewish state.
I didn't realize it was a population/demographics issue. I never considered that. It's about numbers? Makes sense.
Honestly the topic is so complex and emotional that it's very difficult to learn about it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
