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39 Democrats out of, what, 235 (don't have the exact number handy) went to Puerto Rico to meet with the U.S. citizens to get a status of post hurricane recover relief efforts from Hurricane Maria. Pelosi did not go on this trip and was right here helping to produce spending bills that MM will not even look at.
Trump lied and said she went as did the right wing media. Even though it's been reported dozens of times she did not go, you won't stop repeating the #FakeNews.
You know, Cape Cod Todd, I generally find you to be a respectful poster and I think you care, unlike some of the others here; however, when I see you parrot wrong information it makes me doubt anything else you might post and, believe it or not, I do like to have an honest dialogue with people.
What does morality have to do with a discussion about Trump's actions?
Don't be obtuse, as it takes two to tango.
Pelosi went into the meeting intending on trying to frame it as the "Trump shutdown", and inexplicably Trump agreed to take credit for it.
Whether it was a miscalculation or something he thinks will help him in the long run, both sides are refusing to budge.
Do you really think Pelosi refusing to negotiate two times, then saying she will not approve one penny toward the wall is all on Trump?
Before you or others make hypocrites of yourself, Democrats have said they would pay as much as 46 billion in the past, and I think as much as 28 billion earlier this year. So to now quibble over 5 billion when we are giving much more than that in foreign aid to Mexico and other Central American countries is absurd.
As to the overall question, no those who refused to show up for work should not be paid. Those who did should be, along with bonuses or promotions for their dedication.
There are far too many lazy slugs on the federal payroll who drag their arse around and do little to knowing. Then when overtime is available because of their lack of production, they jump at it.
Those are the type who likely were not showing up to work, and they should not be rewarded for their lack of work ethic.
BTW - For those of you on the left who think socialism and/or communism works, look no further than the slugs to see how much effort they would be putting into the "collective pot" for everyone to share in equally.
When I worked, I was the only person in my department and typically worked 40-60 hours a week, depending on the projects I needed to finish. While I was happy to go on vacation, a small part of me always dreaded it as well. I used to be jealous of the receptionist - if she was gone, someone came in and did her job. When I was gone, the work piled up.
While I have no way of actually knowing the situation, I might guess that all the work that's typically done by federal workers, the work that's just piling up now, will be there waiting for them when they return. I firmly believe they'll be working their fannies off to catch up at that point. I don't begrudge giving them their back pay, pretty sure they're going to pay for all the stress, both now during the shut-down and after.
Need some explanation here. For those who didn’t work, why should they be paid?
Before you argue it’s not their fault, it’s not the taxpayers’ fault either. In the private sector, if a company shuts down due to slow sales, nobody would be paid.
Since they will get the pay back for not doing any work, that’s like paid vacation! Frankly, all the whining from the federal employees is only because they have no savings when they know government shutdowns are not rare events.
As others have pointed out, this isn't a private company and even if it was, the two situations are comparable. In this case, the employer isn't shutting down because of slow sales. It's shutting down because of the lack of ability of the employees' bosses to maintain effective working relationships to keep things running properly, with different parties (except the employees) pointing fingers at each other.
Also, the employees have certain tasks that they are responsible for. It's not as if that work is just going to disappear during the shutdown, so they are likely going to have to be doing a lot of catch up when they hopefully get back to work, in work and the number of hours worked. It's not really a free "vacation", but will be many compressed workweeks on the back side of the shutdown.
You do realize that was before she became Speaker, right? After that, she was in Washington DC, getting new CRs ready to pass - which they were. Why isn't McConnell letting the Senate vote on them?
Need some explanation here. For those who didn’t work, why should they be paid?
Before you argue it’s not their fault, it’s not the taxpayers’ fault either. In the private sector, if a company shuts down due to slow sales, nobody would be paid.
Since they will get the pay back for not doing any work, that’s like paid vacation! Frankly, all the whining from the federal employees is only because they have no savings when they know government shutdowns are not rare events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
I don’t agree with Trump on everything.
What’s the moral justification for this?
Of course you are correct about the Private Sector - Union Strikers don't get paid by their employer when they Strike. Plant workers don't get paid if their Plant is on Furlough due to Fiscal Reasons or when the Plant shuts down due to a strike. Both of those have happened in my Family. No work = No pay.
It's clearly different for Federal Workers - they are Entitled and have a great sense of their Complete Superiority and Entitlement ..... our Intellectual "betters". "Moral" is only for Walls (but not the existing Walls the Democrats Voted for and funded).
Why is this?????? Easy - the Federal Government is ManyMany Trillions in Debt and that doesn't bother any of them .... they use "Other People's Money". Other People's Money is used for the Salaries (work or not), used for the Bonuses, used for the Boondoggle Junkets to "conferences", used for everything they do. They have gold plated benefits -- all provided with "Other People's Money"
Why should they ever worry about waste, debt or anything else ...
It's all "Other People's Money. To put a little dump of icing on the Cake, they then turn around to Protest and SUE the "other People's Money" to get even more "other People's Money"
Warning to Federal Workforce and Voters .... this Pelosi War is just beginning. It's going to get worse.
The First CR expires (the one that was not voted in the Senate) is just 15 days .... so Nancy "passed" another CR today -- Voice Vote Only, even though a Recorded Vote was called for on the Floor and ignored - for a 2nd CR that will expire on February 28th. That's not bad enough - it will get worse.
On March 1, 2019 -- the Debt Ceiling kicks back in and we already know Nancy is at WAR.
We are likely to have 2 Full Years of this Nancy WAR. House Members will do exactly what she tells them to do -- they don't DARE cross her. THIS is what the Voters wanted and this is what they will get.
I worked during the 16 day shutdown during Obama as a federal officer. all my peers stayed home, playing video games and tv. They came back and got paid as if nothing happened, I didn't get the luxury because I was essential and had to work regardless.
Im glad they are paid, but everyone already knew they would? it's required. What I dont understand is the medias hype over it. Its not a big deal.
Agreed that when shutdowns only last a few days or even two weeks, it's not a big deal for the employees. When it starts going beyond that length of time, and no end is in sight, living without a paycheck becomes a problem.
I don't personally have an opinion on the wall one way or the other, and I try very hard not to take sides in the politics. I just don't like seeing innocent people being used in this way. There should have been another method chosen to get money for the wall. A government shutdown should not be used for this purpose, because, IMO, it's extortion. In other words, someone who demands money, or else he'll bring harm to innocent people, is committing a felony.
Remember that old James Taylor song about Richard Nixon's last day in office? It's an interesting reflection on how Nixon wanted to line up the white house employees before he left. I wish Taylor would write a new version, where the federal employees are once again asked to line up. But this time, instead of doing it to shake hands, it's so each one can be given the finger.
Need some explanation here. For those who didn’t work, why should they be paid?
Before you argue it’s not their fault, it’s not the taxpayers’ fault either. In the private sector, if a company shuts down due to slow sales, nobody would be paid.
Since they will get the pay back for not doing any work, that’s like paid vacation! Frankly, all the whining from the federal employees is only because they have no savings when they know government shutdowns are not rare events.
Nothing funnier than when people whine and complain about federal employees.
If somebody thinks feds have it made....go to college, get a degree, and apply to become a federal employee.
Nothing funnier than when people whine and complain about federal employees.
If somebody thinks feds have it made....go to college, get a degree, and apply to become a federal employee.
I honestly think that this is why there has been so much nasty resentment towards federal government workers during the shutdown. Prior to 2013 when there weren't constant threats of shutdowns every 2-3 months, working for the federal government was viewed as one of the most stress-free jobs with great benefits and stability (especially for mid-level employees).
The federal government gets unlimited numbers of applications, and it is very hard to break in. In both these threads and in real life, I know people who hate the "government" because they couldn't get in. That is not the only reason (some hate it for other reasons), but I think it is a contributor to all of the animosity. 99% of federal workers have absolutely nothing to do with hiring decisions, so the anger is misplaced.
Reading these threads during the government shutdown makes it seem like federal government workers are some of the most hated workers in this country. Looking at the news and YouTube, you realize that most are not wealthy and they are struggling (regardless of whether or not they should have saved better).
I don't have a dog in this fight, I am not a federal employee, but I guess if I were promised a pay, of course I would be pissed if the government shut down. When it comes to people's wallet, logic is not something they want to think about.
This said, Let's figure out if we really need so many federal employees, maybe these are fighting words too.
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