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They took that government to task ... is it constitutional to do so?
Yeah they did, when they felt that their slaveholding way of life was in danger. And this dates back to the Missouri Compromise. That, the Wilmot Proviso, the Fugitive Slave Law, Bleeding Kansas, these events began to culminate to the South calling for secession.
It does, it always has and it always will. To be honest, I really don't have the time these days to go into details with you on this, so I'm going to leave it up to you, on whether or not you want to do it.
First I want to point out that I'm 59 years old. My parents were born 1919 and 1920, they were in their 40's when they adopted me and my grandmother was born in the late 1800's. I was raised in the church, all though, I do not attend a church today, I am a child of Christ. I'm just not as they say, orthodox.
Secondly, Confederate Constitution, specifically states
Section 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.
The expansions to the west as new states were added --- they wanted to be able to take everyone with them.
The had just fought off one government, the American Revolution, they were free, but they were not independent and the union was becoming more tyrannical ... Lincoln wanted their militias (state armies) for himself to command. He wanted their armies, he wanted their money ... all of it. And they were like, we just did this once, and now we must do it again. Fight for our, 'independence' from an ever encroaching form of government.
Lastly, I think you like the narrative that has been fed to you so much, it wouldn't matter to you one bit anything, anyone says that contradicts it, however, if you at any time would like to learn of the culture of the days of the beginnings of America, all documents can be found here, The Making of America click on Browse right at the top. I recommend, "Browse the Civil War documents", and "Harper's New Monthly Magazine" ... Which covers everything. And you won't know what I mean by, 'everything' unless you want to know.
There is a whole other culture of that era, that people reject. They like what they know and if people like H.K. Edgerton, tries to tell them any different, well those people are just stupid. But if a person truly does want to understand, I also suggest --- going to church. And not just any church ...
No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
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The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired
The right to own slaves was still protected in the Confederate Constitution. Here is further proof:
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The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.
And what does going to church have to do with anything we're discussing?
Both are a spin off of Protestant ... Martin Luther, founded it and no, not the king.
Alot of churches are Protestant. Lutheran is Protestant. Baptist is Protestant. They are both different in several ways. The Presbyterian Church is different from the Baptist Church. Some beliefs are similar, but the way the churches operate are different.
Before 1910, 90 percent of all Blacks in the USA lived in the southern states. Today, that number is around 55 percent. However, it still stands that the majority of Black Americans live in the southern USA. The Great Migration meant a large portion of the South's Black population went north and west.
This is what can be surmised by this.
-55 percent of Black Americans are southerners.
-90 percent of Black Americans, regardless of birthplace, have southern roots.
Based on these numbers, the majority of Black Americans should be claiming the Confederate flag as part of their heritage. That is not happening at all. In fact, this number is very tiny. There are far more Blacks who have disdain for the Confederate flag. If the Confederate flag is about southern heritage, then explain why Black Americans, particularly southern Blacks, are not claiming it.
I grew up going to church nearly every Sunday. Plenty of kids went to church with grandma, grandpa, mother, and father. And the minister of the church I went to had some not so nice things to say about the Confederate flag. Alot of people I went to church with didn't like the Confederate flag either. Nice try, but no cigar.
You still might want to really think about why so many Blacks, despite southern roots, don't like the Confederate flag, and it has nothing to do with church.
Because they have been told they need to be offended by leftist activists. It is just part of the identity politics pushed by the left. Outrage is all the rage in left wing circles.
I have been told by older black people that no one really cared about the confederate flag until the rise of the PC generation. This outrage has been taught and like all PC I reject it and refuse to acknowledge the so called outrage they express. Their outrage is their own problem and should not interfere with the freedom of others.
Because they have been told they need to be offended by leftist activists. It is just part of the identity politics pushed by the left. Outrage is all the rage in left wing circles.
I have been told by older black people that no one really cared about the confederate flag until the rise of the PC generation. This outrage has been taught and like all PC I reject it and refuse to acknowledge the so called outrage they express. Their outrage is their own problem and should not interfere with the freedom of others.
I think you wish that was the case. Sounds like gaslighting on your part. Going back to the old days of the South, it wasn't Black people flying Confederate flags or paying homage to Confederate symbols. And no, they didn't need help from leftists. Blacks in the USA haven't made mention to the Confederacy as their "southern heritage". More Blacks are just speaking out because they can. They don't fear getting killed for speaking up vs the early 20th century. Be a Black man and speak out against Confederate symbols in those days. You might get killed. That kept alot of Black people from speaking out against many injustices. Blacks didn't need leftists to tell them how to feel. Alot of Blacks likely felt no love for Confederate symbols, but became less afraid to say so over time.
Older Black people have mentioned their disdain for the Confederate flag while talking to me. I don't know what Black people you've been talking to, but the older Black people I've spoken to never had anything nice to say about the Confederate flag.
Again, instead of gaslighting, you might want to admit that maybe alot of Black people have legitimate reasons for having disdain for the Confederate flag. That outrage was always there, and has been coming out over the last few decades.
Be a Black man and speak out against Confederate symbols in those days. You might get killed.
i remember growing up. nobody ever gave the flag a second thought, yea we understand about the bigot but we didnt pay them no attention because we knew they was bigot, we refer to them as dumbass too. the flag was just around us because of southern rock music groups, mtv. 4wd redneck. nobody thought anything against it
then the minoriy started complaining and we took it down, over time but yes we took it down
but today there a chance it could get you killed if you had one
I think you wish that was the case. Sounds like gaslighting on your part. Going back to the old days of the South, it wasn't Black people flying Confederate flags or paying homage to Confederate symbols. And no, they didn't need help from leftists. Blacks in the USA haven't made mention to the Confederacy as their "southern heritage". More Blacks are just speaking out because they can. They don't fear getting killed for speaking up vs the early 20th century. Be a Black man and speak out against Confederate symbols in those days. You might get killed. That kept alot of Black people from speaking out against many injustices. Blacks didn't need leftists to tell them how to feel. Alot of Blacks likely felt no love for Confederate symbols, but became less afraid to say so over time.
Older Black people have mentioned their disdain for the Confederate flag while talking to me. I don't know what Black people you've been talking to, but the older Black people I've spoken to never had anything nice to say about the Confederate flag.
Again, instead of gaslighting, you might want to admit that maybe alot of Black people have legitimate reasons for having disdain for the Confederate flag. That outrage was always there, and has been coming out over the last few decades.
So I guess you believe I am lying because what I say does not support your rhetoric. I stand by what I said, yea I have spoken to black people who do not care one way or another about the confederate flag. They were to old to be part of the outrage generation and simply do t get all the hubbub about it. I even know one black man who has ancestors who fought for the confederacy. Younger members of his family were predictably unhappy about this but he just saw it as part of his heritage. All of this to me was just more evidence that many young black people have been taught to be so thin skinned and outraged about things like confederate flags and monuments. Who taught them????white leftists did. I know you won’t admit that but it is true.
Of course all this is irrelevant because even if your right and every black person is offended by confederate flags and statues it does not change anything. In the end your outrage does not trump my freedom. We as a people can stop political correctness by simply not giving any thought at all to the offended folks, people who are really just too thin skinned. Let them be outraged....that is their issue and no one else’s.
The right to own slaves was still protected in the Confederate Constitution. Here is further proof:
And what does going to church have to do with anything we're discussing?
I've already read it, 'all' of it.
Confederate Constitution,
"Section 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same."
Did you know that the Transatlantic Trade ended here in 1808? Just a bit of trivia for you. (It should make you question, but it won't)
Quote:
And what does going to church have to do with anything we're discussing?
Just there is a bit of 'culture' (and your not investigating any of the linked document I have provided for you) of the south, that is being left out of these discussions, that's all. To be honest, a person would have to go back 3000 years in order to wrap their heads around it.
Slavery, The Institution of ... was established in order to give people an option of not going to debtors prison, in ancient times. By the time the Confederate Constitution was established, it was being fazed out of social economic customs. In studying of Biblical times where as people entered into a covenant to God, they did so, because they thought the Government established Institution was wrong, yet it was the law of the times. Every member of the family did chores (something we have also fazed out), most people, God fearing ones ... brought home another family member and gave to them, chores. (Do preachers still discuss this in Churches, today? I'm thinking they probably don't.)
It wasn't until the Transatlantic Trade did that change, somewhat, for the (free) labor needed to run the business of this country.
I was on the the web site library that I pointed you to and found this published ... Port Royal Experiment
I don't know yet why Andrew Jackson ended it though. Also, I found in my history of recent visited (I thought I had erased) the link to "The (A) Bill of February 17th 1864, the act to increase the efficiency of the army, by the employment of free negroes and slaves." It wasn't the Union Army either ... but then we all know you think that H. K. Edgerton, is a stupid man, so that information will mean nothing to you.
Ira Berlin, historian, wrote, "Slaves Without Masters: The Free Negro in the Antebellum South", initially published in 1974; reissued by the New Press in 2007, I understand it to be an educational find. (Link to the Review)
I don't think there is anything that could be told to you that would make you question that narrative you seem to cling to, so I'm thinking it would be best just to bid you, good day. (I can lead a horse to water, but I sure as hell, can not make him drink it) Take care ...
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 02-05-2019 at 11:17 PM..
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