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Old 01-24-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Tax is tax.
If it was truly a Constitutional tax, EVERYONE would pay, not just 55% of US 1040 filers. Scrap the federal income tax and levy a 25-30% VAT tax. EVERYONE pays, according to what they choose to spend.

Perhaps you just need more info on which is more effective at redistribution: a progressive or a regressive tax system:

How Other Developed Countries Tax and Spend

Pay close attention to what that scatter plot chart is telling us. There IS a distinct pattern.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,003 posts, read 12,589,940 times
Reputation: 8921
16th amendment is constitutional. Dumb conspiracies do not count.

Redefining things like slavery. When you are physically sold from one private individual to another, separated from family, and given a whipping, let me know.

Good job

Total rate regressive tax rates are a terrible idea. Yours would leave most of the .01% paying almost no tax since they "invest" most income and only have income when they choose to cash out. Joe Sixpack spends most on essentials. This is especially in light that this country does little to differentiate between venture capitalist heroes (Yes really, heroes. Yes I mean that) and bust out artist parasites like Ed Lampert, nevermind the middle group who are neutral yet still receive preferential tax rates as capital gains on ordinary investments.

The right cannot be trusted with words like patriot, slavery, socialist, communist, marxist etc.

The left cannot be trusted with words like, justice, privilege, nazi, fascist etc.

Neither can be trusted with the word fair.

Data in linked is somewhat contradicted by a few links when I googled "total tax burden progressive Germany." I picked Germany randomly as less social democratic than Sweden but more so than UK. Germany had a couple outliers in the data (IE bumps in the graphs provided.) Looks like your link is as stilted as the post I responded to. I do not have 4 hours to dig thru all the sites.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
16th amendment is constitutional. Dumb conspiracies do not count.
It did not authorize the fed gov to tax people differently. Doing so violates the Equal Protection Clause.

Quote:
Redefining things like slavery. When you are physically sold from one private individual to another, separated from family, and given a whipping, let me know.
Working for no compensation while others take and benefit from the fruits of one's labor is indeed the very definition of slavery.

Quote:
Total rate regressive tax rates are a terrible idea.
Apparently, not. European countries have had great success with their regressive tax systems. They provide the extensive government social program benefits liberals want, and they found the way to do it without stifling economic growth: regressive taxation.

Quote:
Data in linked is somewhat contradicted by a few links when I googled "total tax burden progressive Germany." I picked Germany randomly as less social democratic than Sweden but more so than UK. Germany had a couple outliers in the data (IE bumps in the graphs provided.) Looks like your link is as stilted as the post I responded to. I do not have 4 hours to dig thru all the sites.
Of course, you don't want to educate yourself because it would prove you wrong.

Take a look at how Scandinavian countries (including Sweden), frequently held up as the model the US should emulate, have structured their income tax (and that's on top of the VAT tax they charge). They have far fewer tax brackets, which are much flatter than those in the US, and their middle class is in the top tax bracket. Let's be fair and put the middle class in the top tax bracket like Scandinavian countries do. Agree?

Threshold at Which the Top Marginal Income Tax Rate Applies as a Multiple of the Country's Average Income


Data source: OECD

We could do that in the U.S. Plus, implement a 25% VAT. Then, we could have a better government-provided social program benefits, like liberals want. Do you think Americans will agree to align our tax system like that?
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:28 AM
 
958 posts, read 304,186 times
Reputation: 194
You can also say if the Democrats keep getting Republicans to cave, they'll be intransigent again and again like they have been. So the answer is for the president to stand strong. Then maybe Democrats will be reasonable on other issues. With the border, they are completely unreasonable, as they are now refusing things they've accepted in the past.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:33 AM
 
25,442 posts, read 9,802,950 times
Reputation: 15333
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
And if the Democrats gets their ransom, they'll do it again.

See how that works both ways? What a dumb Leftist thread.
If they get their way they'll get the government open. They'll give $5.7 billion for border security? So doing something like that again is a bad thing? LOL.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:33 AM
 
230 posts, read 94,825 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
This is an outstanding article on the consequence of compromising with the Republicans.

The US government has a policy to not negotiate with terrorists. Why? Because once the terrorists get something in one deal, they will keep repeating it to get more and more.

Same with negotiating with Trump and the Republicans. If they get what they want from the shut-down, they will keep shutting down the government to get what they want.
Its sad we are even having to negotiate with the leftists to DEFEND our borders and country and citizens. SMH...
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:34 AM
 
25,442 posts, read 9,802,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesemont View Post
You can also say if the Democrats keep getting Republicans to cave, they'll be intransigent again and again like they have been. So the answer is for the president to stand strong. Then maybe Democrats will be reasonable on other issues. With the border, they are completely unreasonable, as they are now refusing things they've accepted in the past.
The Dems are being reasonable. They're offering $5.7 billion on border security. They've passed several bills to reopen the government because people are hurting. Both Dems and Reps passed a bill before the shutdown that Trump basically agreed to, but then walked away from. So tell me again who's being unreasonable?
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
If they get their way they'll get the government open. They'll give $5.7 billion for border security? So doing something like that again is a bad thing? LOL.
The Republicans will pass a bill to re-open the fed gov if the bill includes the $5.7 billion for a border barrier. No more giving in before the actual agreement is in the bill. The Dems screwed Reagan on the exact same thing: promises they didn't keep on border security. Trump won't repeat that mistake. NEVER trust a Congressional Dem.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:36 AM
 
25,442 posts, read 9,802,950 times
Reputation: 15333
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarRight View Post
Its sad we are even having to negotiate with the leftists to DEFEND our borders and country and citizens. SMH...
Someone on here isn't paying attention, lol.

The Dems want to offer $5.7 for border security. Where are you getting your news? Of course you have to negotiate with the Dems. They are the majority in the House. Do you think this is a dictatorship? I know Trump would love that, but it's not.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:39 AM
 
25,442 posts, read 9,802,950 times
Reputation: 15333
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The shutdown will continue until President Trump gets funding from Congress for the Mexican Border Wall.

Nobody wants hordes of illegal migrants pouring into the United States from third world countries into perpetuity.

It is that simple.
It's even simpler than that. Dems want border security too and offered $5.7 billion for increased border security. And you are absolutely right that nobody wants hordes of illegal immigrants pouring in. There needs to be serious immigration reform.

But first, the government needs to be reopened.
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