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Renunciation can be construed as recognizing your citizenship in the first place. I shouldn't (morally & logically) renounce something I never agreed to in the first place.
While I'm downtown at the State's ornate building filling out its paperwork "officially" renouncing my citizenship I might as well renounce Satan, Santa Claus, and my allegiance to the Queen of England while I'm in the renouncing mood. It makes the same amount of sense when you look at it.
The definition of consent can't change/bend for any individual or entity because it ceases to become consent at that point.
I hate to break it to you man but the notion that you only have to obey the things you agree to is not true, has never been true, and never will be true.
Try as you might to make that some moral failing of society, it isn't.
I get that nothing is going to change your mind though. The sad part of threads like this is that you really can't tell the trolls from the true believers. And I'm not sure which is worse
I pay taxes the same way I'd pay the mafia if they came to my door demanding payment for their protection, or a mugger that flashes the gun in their belt and asks for my wallet.
The thing is, I would definitely pay for some of the things taxes currently pay for. I just advocate that the same rules apply to the government that apply to anyone else...you can't just force your services on people and send them a bill.
There are certainly some things I don't mind paying for, but I agree with you that I grudgingly pay taxes on a lot of the waste I see.
Income tax is robbery. Even it’s in the constitution, it’s still immoral.
Sales tax is not robbery.
Wow how arbitrary of you
Robbery is defined as the unlawful taking of property. The government sets the laws per the constitution. So it's a hard sell to claim income taxes are robbery.
Immoral is an even better one. Many would argue that refusing to pay taxes while still enjoying the benefits of living in a modern society is immoral. You're writing messages in a forum on the internet right now so don't pretend you don't benefit from society.
Congrats! You won a game of statist bingo by getting the top left square. Your prize is a cookie. Don't forget to claim it on your taxes this year or the tax man may cage you.
Are you people like willfully ignoring the fundamental purpose of government in society? I mean it's laid out pretty clearly in the opening sentences of the Constitution, not to mention the founding documents of just about every other country.
This idea that if you don't personally benefit and approve, then it is unjust, is incredibly shortsighted. Civilization as we know it would not exist if that were how a majority of people behaved.
We just refuse to see it as legitimate.
I never signed the Constitution, my parents never signed the Constitution, I don't know of any person I've ever met or interacted with who gave explicit informed consent to be governed by any level of government within the borders that define the landmass known as the United States.
Do you?
If not then you did not give consent.
Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that*all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are*Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the*consent of the governed
See that in bold? Declaration of Independence clearly states the consent of the governed is a founding principle. Now you can say it's not law (as it predates the establishment of the US), but you cannot deny that a foundational basis of the US was that the colonists fought a war to regain a government they consented to.
You never consented, No_Recess never consented, no one posting here actually gave their explicit consent to governance. We were never even asked. So how is the US Government any more legitimate than the UK government (Who were the previous governors) or No_Recess?
Those who don't want to pay taxes - they won't be able to drive on any publicly funded roads, can't use police or fire trucks, can't send their kids to public schools, can't use any parks or park services, and won't receive any social security or medicare benefits ever.
I'm not sure how you'll get around, without using anything that belongs to the public, but let's assume you manage that.
Maybe it will work out. Maybe your savings from taxes will pay for you and a few others to buy up private property to build your own private roads, maybe you can hire private fire/police as some who are very very wealthy do.
But then, you'd be right back where you started, I guess. You'll be paying for the services you use or might use.
I would agree with this, unfortunately your State won't allow it to happen. If I start to build my own road, collect rain water, build a fence on my property without a permit, etc one of your goons will fine/cage/kill me (depending on the extent to which I resist).
If you call off the dogs I'm game. Let me know how it goes when you bring it up at the next meeting.
There is : Who do you think it should belong to and who does it actually belong to?
I think that it should be the person's who earned it. The reality is that all US currency is owned by the FED.
Which wouldn't be a problem if the U.S. government didn't require tribute and that tribute be made in its monopolized currency.
Here I shall cite once again the story of my off-grid friends living in the mountains of Vermont. They use no State services or infrastructure yet they must make two tributes a year (what the statists call property taxes) to the State.
Quite the conundrum for a family that doesn't use U.S. currency in its daily life. How do they pay? The wife babysits under the table and receives U.S. currency for the sole use of paying the tribute. She would not do it otherwise but if the tribute isn't paid and paid using the mandatory currency they will face a caging.
Isn't it ironic that in order live peacefully on your own you still must be a slave to the State and at the same time become a "criminal" under its laws (she isn't filing W2s)?
I never signed the Constitution, my parents never signed the Constitution, I don't know of any person I've ever met or interacted with who gave explicit informed consent to be governed by any level of government within the borders that define the landmass known as the United States.
Do you?
If not then you did not give consent.
See that in bold? Declaration of Independence clearly states the consent of the governed is a founding principle. Now you can say it's not law (as it predates the establishment of the US), but you cannot deny that a foundational basis of the US was that the colonists fought a war to regain a government they consented to.
You never consented, No_Recess never consented, no one posting here actually gave their explicit consent to governance. We were never even asked. So how is the US Government any more legitimate than the UK government (Who were the previous governors) or No_Recess?
Since this post was favorable to my position I shall only charge you half of the required tribute this month to live in my kingdom.
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