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Old 01-28-2019, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,354,336 times
Reputation: 6164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
Repugnantcans are too stupid to follow logic. It'd demonstrated minute-by-minute on this board.
When you have nothing logical to contribute you can always resort to name calling.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,354,336 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede View Post
Why do you compare a democracy and a dictatorship?
The United States of America is neither a Democracy or a dictatorship. It is a Constitutional Republic.

Constitutional Republic:
Quote:
A Constitutional Republic is a form of government where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, representatives mandated to govern according to existing constitutional law. It is because of this mandate that the elected class in a Constitutional Republic is limited in their power over the citizenry. The United States of America was created as and intended to survive as a Constitutional Republic.

Our Constitutional Republic is separated into three separate but equal branches of government; the Executive, Legislative and Judicial, represented by the Presidency, Congress and the Courts. Because of this no branch has a rein on absolute power thus assuring that there will be checks and balances to the governmental system and protection for the rule of law.

Through the elected representation employed by our Constitutional Republic the influence of the majority is tempered by protections for individual rights as mandated by constitutional law. Our form of government is deliberate in its attempt to thwart majoritarianism, thereby protecting political dissent and individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population. The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify.

"A pure unbridled democracy is a political system in which the majority enjoys absolute power by means of democratic elections. In an unvarnished democracy, unrestrained by a constitution, the majority can vote to impose tyranny on themselves and the minority opposition. They can vote to elect those who will infringe upon our inalienable God-given rights. Thomas Jefferson referred to this as elected despotism in Notes on the State of Virginia (also cited in Federalist 48 by Madison):"
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:27 AM
 
Location: C.R. K-T
6,202 posts, read 11,452,611 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
I'd give up most of it if you pay me back every penny that I ever paid into it....

Along withth the interest it would have earned by my investing it of course.

.....Fire departments aren't even remotely socialist in nature. I never said I was against all taxation and public utilities etc.....

See that's the problem with trying to discuss big government vs small government with socialist Lefties....

They always want to turn it in to an all or nothing argument and characterize those who endorse small government, capitalism and low taxes as calling for anarchy.

And that's just a load of BS.
Small government always intruding on personal freedom? How is that small government? Let's see--the fixation with abortion, Trump's bible classes, genital checkers to implement the bathroom bills, etc. The GOP has lost my vote when they are bent on enforcing the will of the heretical Southern Baptist Church and it's schismatic Evangelical offshoots!
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,900 posts, read 3,900,192 times
Reputation: 5856
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The Left loves to rail against capitalism, blaming it for all the evils of the world.
Capitalism has been historically a system of exploitation of the Masses, and remains so today, even after decades of attempts to reform it. Talk regarding the system has largely been of a circular and utopian nature since the collapse of the U.S.S.R.. The Center-Left coalition has been searching for a way to make Capitalism “work,” i.e. make it palpable enough for the majority of people so as to keep the Owner Classes feeling secure. You can’t fix what something is by its very nature, though. Capitalism is a socio-economic model for a Class based organizing of society; it’s chief claim to progress was that it operated as a universal (neither religiously or ethnically demarcated) organizational structure outside of the hereditary based systems of feudalism that preceded it, though given projected trends for Wealth concentration one might find the later claim to be somewhat specious.

The Keynesian economists tried to make Capitalism work and they were axed back in the 1970’s, along with the older generations of the CED, the moment the owner classes felt secure again after the Great Crash. Unions, Regulatory Bodies, and the promises of a Great Society where undermined and attacked, dismantled, and largely turned into empty talking points. The triumph of Right Wing politics, aka the last four to five decades, should be observed as nothing short of absolute failure on the part of the Center-Left.

In the Western context, however, Capitalism is the softest form of Power enforcement, in that it is largely an idea that most in the society at least tentatively accept as the deterministic apparatus for “success” and “failure.” Even intellectual debate is referred to as, “the Marketplace of Ideas.” Once it is gone as viable option, the Elites have one of two options: submit to egalitarianism or resort to older forms of control. To be more frank, we also need to start talking about actual material breaking points, rather than pretending that abstract “polarization” will continue on.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,940 posts, read 1,813,027 times
Reputation: 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The Left loves to rail against capitalism, blaming it for all the evils of the world.

While simultaneously singing the praises of socialism...

So if socialism is so great, and capitalism so bad.....


Why do thousands of immigrants and refugees want to come to America when Venezuela is right in their neck of the woods?
Straight socialism/communism is bad. (i.e. 100% income tax)
Straight capitalism is also bad. (Remove all labor laws, child labor is legal, no 40 hour work week, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, workplace safety rules, no federal holidays, etc... and see what happens)

Which system gives the best benefit to society? Capitalism, but it needs to be regulated.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Most of the individual states in the US already had their own state's version of social security, before it was nationalized. There was no reason for the feds to take it over.


Social security is a Ponzi scheme.

You don't get your own money back....you pay for the people ahead of you.

The first people to ever start receiving SS never paid into it.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Small government always intruding on personal freedom? How is that small government? Let's see--the fixation with abortion, Trump's bible classes, genital checkers to implement the bathroom bills, etc. The GOP has lost my vote when they are bent on enforcing the will of the heretical Southern Baptist Church and it's schismatic Evangelical offshoots!


The religious right makes up only a small percentage of the right in general and their influence is declining.

Whereas the Social Progressive part of the far left is growing in influence on the Democrat party.
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:03 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Straight socialism/communism is bad. (i.e. 100% income tax)
Straight capitalism is also bad. (Remove all labor laws, child labor is legal, no 40 hour work week, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, workplace safety rules, no federal holidays, etc... and see what happens)

Which system gives the best benefit to society? Capitalism, but it needs to be regulated.

They don't like to be "regulated."

They ask on what ground they should be "regulated" and will call you a communist)))

Only communists regulate - duh))
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,354,336 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Straight socialism/communism is bad. (i.e. 100% income tax)
Straight capitalism is also bad. (Remove all labor laws, child labor is legal, no 40 hour work week, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, workplace safety rules, no federal holidays, etc... and see what happens)

Which system gives the best benefit to society? Capitalism, but it needs to be regulated.
It already is regulated.

There are already labor laws, child labor is illegal, we have a 40 hour work week along with minimum wage, unemployment insurance, workplace safety rules, and federal holidays. I don't think that there's too many people that are willing or wanting to repeal all or any of that? Maybe some, but they are in the extreme minority and will never succeed at it.

The difference between Capitalism and Socialism is how much control do we want the government to have over every aspect of our lives? Some Democrat politicians are even suggesting that the government should provide every adult with a livable income. How's that for an incentive to go out and find a job? Which begs the next question of what happens when most of the population decides it's not profitable to go out and work? Who will work the factories, transport the goods and farm the fields? Then where will all of the money come from to provide for all? Maybe they can just keep on printing money? Oh wait! They tried that in Germany during the 1920's and we saw how well that all worked out.

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist state. The first is the most important.


1 Healthcare—control healthcare and you control the people.


2 Poverty—increase the poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.


3 Debt—increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.


4 Gun control—Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.


5 Welfare—Take control of every aspect of their lives (food, housing, income).


6 Education—Take control of what people read and listen to–take control of what children learn in school.


7 Religion—Remove the belief in God from the Government and schools.


8 Class warfare—Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:02 PM
 
Location: C.R. K-T
6,202 posts, read 11,452,611 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The religious right makes up only a small percentage of the right in general and their influence is declining.

Whereas the Social Progressive part of the far left is growing in influence on the Democrat party.
But in the South, the GOP's only stronghold, religion sill plays a strong part in culture. Last legislative session, the Lieutenant Governor here in Texas wanted to pass a NC-style Bathroom Bill. If not for Corporate opposition, this would have passed into law. (But to be fair, the Lt. Governor was a conservative Talk radio host and radio station owner--and came to Texas for a TV sportscaster job in Houston before that--before being first elected to this office.)

Abortion and other Religious Right moral issues are still big targets here in the South. Word is that there will be more regulations on those big targets during the bi-ennial legislative session this year. Politics must be comfortable in that Northern/Western blue state that you're living in?
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