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So now the Nazis aren't socialist? Would you guys like a few minutes to coordinate?
Fact: The Nazis removed every civil right imaginable from the Jews.
Fact: The Nazis did not institute gun control on a broad scale. In fact, the 1938 firearms law eased existing controls on firearms.
Fact: The Nazis did not institute gun control on a broad scale. In fact, the 1938 firearms law eased existing controls on firearms.
I wasn't a part of this debate and the honest truth is I didn't know much about Nazi gun control (or lack thereof).
However, after some research I think there is a legitimate argument both ways. Since you already know your side of the argument, let me illustrate why there is some truth with the other side too.
The Weimar Republic instituted a national gun registration in 1931 in response to a rise in the Nazis and other extremist groups.
->By 1933 the Nazis were in power and used the national gun registration to take gun rights away from enemies of the state, which included more than just Jews. It also numbered communists and social democrats and others who were not "politically reliable."
Therefore, the Nazis used gun control measures to reduce away gun rights from their political opponents in order to strengthen their own political position.
This is rationally described as gun control and fits into the argument that many Americans make in 2019 that guns are to keep the government honest.
->In 1938 the Nazis loosened gun control laws for preferred groups while further shutting out other groups. Nazi Party members now had more legal rights than other groups for gun ownership not just to strengthen their own party's power, but to increase the appeal to join and become a member.
Also in 1938, the Nazis tightened other gun laws including banning .22 hollow point bullets and making it so that those who weren't "politically reliable" couldn't even work at a gun facility manufacturing guns.
The German government used police raids to confiscate and search guns to enforce their bigoted gun control laws before Kristallnacht was launched - so the Jews would be less likely to defend themselves.
Jews caught with a gun would have to serve a 20 year sentence at a labor camp or pay a hefty ransom. If you resisted arrest you were to be shot on the spot.
Jewish WWI veterans had to give up rusty knives and guns commemorating their service to Germany.
Many Social Democrats/Communists were caught up in this as well.
Once these groups were disarmed other political exclusion laws targeting them escalated dramatically stealing other rights.
-> When Germany took control of France they stated that all French people had to turn in any firearm with the failure to do so being the death penalty.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at the above and say that the Nazis used gun control to steal other rights and that they in fact engaged in gun control. If you only look at Nazi Party members, then yes, generally you gained more gun rights over the course of the Nazi control, but that is being a bit myopic to ignore that multiple groups lost gun rights.
Gun control was a way for the Nazis to weaken their political opponents while strengthening their political allies. The theft of gun rights was a stepping stone to the theft of other rights. You must look at the whole picture not just one group to draw your conclusion.
So we've moved the goalposts from "Plus the Nazis wanted private gun ownership banned..." to "The Nazis wanted private gun ownership banned for 0.75% of Germans".
Banning gun ownership for a certain demographic (in the US, it's frequently those who live in certain states/localities and/or those under age 21) and subsequently executing them is OK with you? It's a slippery slope. The first step is always disarming one's targets. Then the confiscation of wealth/assets happens, and then the final solution... execute millions of them once you've made sure they cannot fight back. Why are liberals so hell-bent on replicating the Nazi blueprint for extermination of undesirables, or should I rather say "deplorables?"
I wasn't a part of this debate and the honest truth is I didn't know much about Nazi gun control (or lack thereof).
However, after some research I think there is a legitimate argument both ways. Since you already know your side of the argument, let me illustrate why there is some truth with the other side too.
The Weimar Republic instituted a national gun registration in 1931 in response to a rise in the Nazis and other extremist groups.
->By 1933 the Nazis were in power and used the national gun registration to take gun rights away from enemies of the state, which included more than just Jews. It also numbered communists and social democrats and others who were not "politically reliable."
Therefore, the Nazis used gun control measures to reduce away gun rights from their political opponents in order to strengthen their own political position.
This is rationally described as gun control and fits into the argument that many Americans make in 2019 that guns are to keep the government honest.
->In 1938 the Nazis loosened gun control laws for preferred groups while further shutting out other groups. Nazi Party members now had more legal rights than other groups for gun ownership not just to strengthen their own party's power, but to increase the appeal to join and become a member.
Also in 1938, the Nazis tightened other gun laws including banning .22 hollow point bullets and making it so that those who weren't "politically reliable" couldn't even work at a gun facility manufacturing guns.
The German government used police raids to confiscate and search guns to enforce their bigoted gun control laws before Kristallnacht was launched - so the Jews would be less likely to defend themselves.
Jews caught with a gun would have to serve a 20 year sentence at a labor camp or pay a hefty ransom. If you resisted arrest you were to be shot on the spot.
Jewish WWI veterans had to give up rusty knives and guns commemorating their service to Germany.
Many Social Democrats/Communists were caught up in this as well.
Once these groups were disarmed other political exclusion laws targeting them escalated dramatically stealing other rights.
-> When Germany took control of France they stated that all French people had to turn in any firearm with the failure to do so being the death penalty.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at the above and say that the Nazis used gun control to steal other rights and that they in fact engaged in gun control. If you only look at Nazi Party members, then yes, generally you gained more gun rights over the course of the Nazi control, but that is being a bit myopic to ignore that multiple groups lost gun rights.
Gun control was a way for the Nazis to weaken their political opponents while strengthening their political allies. The theft of gun rights was a stepping stone to the theft of other rights. You must look at the whole picture not just one group to draw your conclusion.
Nazi Germany was a police state and it is not the left that supports that mentality in this country as we see over and over again.
Both left and right are supporting big government; however the left is supporting a police state. Think hate speech, gun control, confiscation of private property etc.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 1 day ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,599,675 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
You and your video have some facts wrong. For starters -->
The Nazis nationalized (stole) businesses so they could reprivatize them to reward influential supporters and buy loyalty. You might even start supporting the Nazis fervently so as to keep them from stealing your business.
If the Nazis rewarded reprivatized businesses to major supporters, then they didn't seize control of businesses out of ideological conviction. If they were actual socialists, they would have kept the businesses under government ownership; with their supporters rewarded with supervisory positions in state-owned firms. I will grant that this is indeed cronyism no matter how one slices it.
So the National Socialist Workers Party wasn't Socialist, despite its name and its practices?
The selective facts in the first post omit basically the mountain of facts that show that the Nazis--by their own admission, and by contemporary standards and today's standards- were socialists.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 1 day ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,599,675 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesandKittens
So the National Socialist Workers Party wasn't Socialist, despite its name and its practices?
The selective facts in the first post omit basically the mountain of facts that show that the Nazis--by their own admission, and by contemporary standards and today's standards- were socialists.
What do you have to disprove the OP?
Show me where the Nazis under Hitler (i.e. after he came to power, not before) kept nationalized state-owned properties - as opposed to simply giving those properties to their major supporters?
Show me where they put the working class ('blue collar' in American terms) interests above all else?
Show me where put economic class concerns over national-ethnic class concerns?
Better yet, refute the video directly.
Hint: The National Socialists weren't socialists any more than the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is an actual democracy or actual republic, or likewise is responsive to the needs of its common everyday people.
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