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Old 04-10-2008, 08:07 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,745 posts, read 44,561,469 times
Reputation: 13606

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
PP is a not for profit business, unlike most hospitals these days. Treatment is made on a sliding scale by a person’s ability to pay.

Here’s a link to the annual report: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/fil...007_vFinal.pdf (broken link)
Your own link shows that PP has come out ahead, financially. I know for a fact that PP does not provide treatment on a sliding scale in my area of the country. I've heard similar complaints about PP's expensive fees and prices charged to those who have no/low income and no insurance from other parts of the country.

I agree 100% with what you have claimed is PP's stated mission. Apparently, that mission does not apply to some regional PP organizations. The Chicago Area PP does not use the word 'complimentary' in their mission statement. Any woman 18 or older is charged the full amount, regardless of income level or insurance status. The Chicago Area PP is also coming out ahead financially.

Planned Parenthood - Planned Parenthood's Mission (broken link)

Charity Navigator Rating - Planned Parenthood/Chicago Area

 
Old 04-10-2008, 08:22 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,799,023 times
Reputation: 14345
I don't think camping is heartless or without compassion, but I think a lot of people overestimate the availability of contraceptives as well as their efficacy. The average price of the pill is $30/month, when you are living paycheck to paycheck and are uninsured as a growing portion of the USA's population is, that $30 takes a quick exit from the budget. They'll use condoms instead. That's okay. But if you faithfully and correctly use contraceptives every time, chances are still good for an unwanted pregnancy. Why? Because they are not 100%. They are closer to 99%. That sounds good, but if you're married and you have sex twice a month (that's not that much, is it?) before your 5th anniversary you will have had sex more than 100 times. Which means you probably had a close call if not an actual unwanted pregnancy by that 5th anniversary. And I have to reiterate, women and men who've had surgery to render them sterile, still sometimes get pregnant. Some people are more fertile than others, and some people live in high-risk environments, not because they want to but because they have to. The real question here is who are we to judge? Why do some of us feel so morally superior that we can criticize women who make this choice? And if we do make abortion illegal, will that stop abortion? Affluent women will still find doctors who will perform the procedure or will simply travel to places where it is legal. It's poor women who will be forced to have unwanted children. And if we say they should put those children up for adoption, then it's poor women who will still be undergoing the risk and burden of pregnancy and then giving up that child to a more affluent couple.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 08:47 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,820,795 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Why do some of us feel so morally superior that we can criticize women who make this choice?
It's all in one's perspective. Many think choosing what innocent life lives and what innocent life dies, in most cases just due to convenience, the ultimate in exercising moral supremacy.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 08:54 AM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,616,598 times
Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't think camping is heartless or without compassion, but I think a lot of people overestimate the availability of contraceptives as well as their efficacy. The average price of the pill is $30/month, when you are living paycheck to paycheck and are uninsured as a growing portion of the USA's population is, that $30 takes a quick exit from the budget. They'll use condoms instead. That's okay. But if you faithfully and correctly use contraceptives every time, chances are still good for an unwanted pregnancy. Why? Because they are not 100%. They are closer to 99%. That sounds good, but if you're married and you have sex twice a month (that's not that much, is it?) before your 5th anniversary you will have had sex more than 100 times. Which means you probably had a close call if not an actual unwanted pregnancy by that 5th anniversary. And I have to reiterate, women and men who've had surgery to render them sterile, still sometimes get pregnant. Some people are more fertile than others, and some people live in high-risk environments, not because they want to but because they have to. The real question here is who are we to judge? Why do some of us feel so morally superior that we can criticize women who make this choice? And if we do make abortion illegal, will that stop abortion? Affluent women will still find doctors who will perform the procedure or will simply travel to places where it is legal. It's poor women who will be forced to have unwanted children. And if we say they should put those children up for adoption, then it's poor women who will still be undergoing the risk and burden of pregnancy and then giving up that child to a more affluent couple.
Thank you for saying I'm not heartless or without compassion...

I think abortion is here to stay......but I think that most people would agree that it is not optimal, and it would be better if abortion did not have to be done at all. Unfortunatly, your right. Nothing is 100%, there will always be unplanned pregnancies. Perhaps if nationalized health care passes, we will see a further decrease in abortions as more women will have access to the pill.
I do disagree with your assertation that adoption is a poor womans burden.....many birthmothers are in fact middle class and the choices for placing their children for adoption are as varied as a woman who chooses abortion. Everyone has a story to tell.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 08:56 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,799,023 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNTT_Vacationer View Post
It's all in one's perspective. Many think choosing what innocent life lives and what innocent life dies, in most cases just due to convenience, the ultimate in exercising moral supremacy.
I don't think that most of the women choosing an abortion would say that it is "just due to covenience", that's a characterization that pro-lifers make. And having a baby is more than an inconvenience. It can be life-threatening, and it will certainly be life-altering. It is easy to stand outside and judge another person, to force her to abide by your choices, but it's a whole lot harder for her to deal with the consequences of your choices.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 08:58 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,820,795 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
But if you faithfully and correctly use contraceptives every time, chances are still good for an unwanted pregnancy. Why? Because they are not 100%. They are closer to 99%. That sounds good, but if you're married and you have sex twice a month (that's not that much, is it?) before your 5th anniversary you will have had sex more than 100 times. Which means you probably had a close call if not an actual unwanted pregnancy by that 5th anniversary.
I don't think that's an accurate description of the effectiveness of birth control methods. A 99% effective method is defined as 1 out of 100 women getting pregnant during the first year of its use. A big deal if you're the one but statically speaking, 99% is pretty effective BC.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 09:01 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,799,023 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Thank you for saying I'm not heartless or without compassion...

I think abortion is here to stay......but I think that most people would agree that it is not optimal, and it would be better if abortion did not have to be done at all. Unfortunatly, your right. Nothing is 100%, there will always be unplanned pregnancies. Perhaps if nationalized health care passes, we will see a further decrease in abortions as more women will have access to the pill.
I do disagree with your assertation that adoption is a poor womans burden.....many birthmothers are in fact middle class and the choices for placing their children for adoption are as varied as a woman who chooses abortion. Everyone has a story to tell.
Of course you are right, as the matter stands today many birthmothers who place their children for adoption are middle-class (though middle-class covers a wide swath of economic situations), but my point is that if you stop legal abortions, affluent women will still manage to get them, and that it is the poorer women who will be denied this choice, that will be forced to either raise unwanted children in economically challenged households or to put those babies up for adoption. And yes, everyone has a story to tell, and I think it's great that there are people willing to listen.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,820,795 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't think that most of the women choosing an abortion would say that it is "just due to covenience", that's a characterization that pro-lifers make. And having a baby is more than an inconvenience. It can be life-threatening, and it will certainly be life-altering. It is easy to stand outside and judge another person, to force her to abide by your choices, but it's a whole lot harder for her to deal with the consequences of your choices.
To avoid beating the definition of convenience to death, what percentage of abortions are due to life-threatening, incest/rape or unborn medical issues. Less than 10%?

Went back and found this: 10% sounds exactly right.
Reasons given for having abortions in the United States
 
Old 04-10-2008, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,573,797 times
Reputation: 11083
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
So are you proposing that anyone that cannot care for him/herself should be subject to a retro active abortion?
Euthanasia is a very good idea.
 
Old 04-10-2008, 09:04 AM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,616,598 times
Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
I took your statements and addressed them. One by one, I did not cherry pick. Did I now call you evil. No, I addressed your comments.

Strange that you're responding to items that were not originally written by you.

You cherry picked in that you willfully ignored that some of my posts were in response to anothers post...i.e when I wrote that perhaps the woman might actually have a job in response to anothers post stating that all those aborted babies would be essentially a drain on tax payers vis a vis welfare.....you didn't address the whole picture, did you?

As far as responding to posts I didn't make, well, you were the one that set it up that way, everybodys posts mixed together without care .......besides, what does it matter? How does it effect the truth of what I wrote?

What is strange is that you haven't responded to what I wrote.
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