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View Poll Results: Should any exemptions for vaccinations be allowed?
Yes - only religious and medical 5 2.94%
Yes - only medical 62 36.47%
Yes - medical, religious and philosophical 26 15.29%
Yes - only religious 1 0.59%
No exemptions at all. 76 44.71%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-07-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,811,747 times
Reputation: 10789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Still waiting for your stats on how many people are deaf, blind and brain damaged because of measles.

redwineandapplesauce,com?? Really??????

I will help you with this information:

Quote:
Severe Complications
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

-As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
-About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
-For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.
Quote:
Long-term Complications
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in the United States.

Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991, 4 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE. The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are two years of age. For more information, see Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE):

Quote:
Common Complications
Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.

-Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
-Diarrhea is reported in less than one out of 10 people with measles.
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:13 AM
 
6,343 posts, read 2,897,107 times
Reputation: 7276
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Still waiting for your stats on how many people are deaf, blind and brain damaged because of measles.

redwineandapplesauce,com?? Really??????
Measles Is A Killer: It Took 145,000 Lives Worldwide Last Year



https://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/38271...wide-last-year
 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:31 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,943,676 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I will help you with this information:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
There are no statistics.

There's a lot of 'may have,' 'could have,' 'could lead to' language.

Which isn't fact. Kinds of like saying the temps may drop below freezing in SoFL.

It can happen. Doesn't mean it's the norm, doesn't mean it happens a lot, means it 'could' happen, maybe once every 10 years. So a nonstarter.

So again: SPECIFICALLY: how many people who had measles were blind, deaf and brain damaged? The fact that there is no statistic means it rarely happens.

But continue to be horrifically terrified of a disease that was a punch line in a Brady Bunch and Donna Reed episode. Seriously be as terrified and angry and anxious as you like. It's your prerogative. Just stop shoving that on everyone else in the form of must get vaccinated rhetoric.
 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:40 AM
 
6,343 posts, read 2,897,107 times
Reputation: 7276
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
There are no statistics.

There's a lot of 'may have,' 'could have,' 'could lead to' language.

Which isn't fact. Kinds of like saying the temps may drop below freezing in SoFL.

It can happen. Doesn't mean it's the norm, doesn't mean it happens a lot, means it 'could' happen, maybe once every 10 years. So a nonstarter.

So again: SPECIFICALLY: how many people who had measles were blind, deaf and brain damaged? The fact that there is no statistic means it rarely happens.

But continue to be horrifically terrified of a disease that was a punch line in a Brady Bunch and Donna Reed episode. Seriously be as terrified and angry and anxious as you like. It's your prerogative. Just stop shoving that on everyone else in the form of must get vaccinated rhetoric.
Measles causes 15,000 to 60,000 cases of blindness per year.



https://www.surveyophthalmol.com/art...179-6/abstract
 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,746,928 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Anyone who gets a whooping vaccine or tetanus shot - which also contains a whooping cough vaccine although 99% of doctors won't disclose that information -- is a carrier fort he disease and spreads it around.

If you think that being responsible means not spreading disease? Then you are against the whooping cough vaccine. Start picketing. Since you are officially an antivaxxer.
What on earth are you talking about?

I was explaining to a poster that yes, indeed, someone can tell her/him to get vaccinated - IOW, dictate medical treatment - and his choice would be between being dictated to regarding "medical treatment" or being dictated to over his "right" to go where he wanted to go.

Also, I know that accurate medical information is not your strong suit, but neither of the whooping cough vaccines is a live vaccine. So no, people who have been vaccinated against whopping cough don't carry it around to infect others.

And I know of no doctor who doesn't know the difference between the DPT vaccine and a simple tetanus vaccine. Maybe you don't.

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-07-2019 at 09:24 AM..
 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:53 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,943,676 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
Measles causes 15,000 to 60,000 cases of blindness per year.



https://www.surveyophthalmol.com/art...179-6/abstract
Where? In third world countries? Yes.

Measles remains a major problem in developing countries, where it affects an estimated 30 million children a year and causes up to one million deaths annually. Measles blindness is the single leading cause of blindness among children in low income countries, accounting for an estimated 15,000 to 60,000 cases of blindness per year.

So between 0.0005% and 0.002% of estimated measles cases in THIRD WORLD countries result in blindness. Estimated, of course.

Still terrified of going blind? Let's continue reading ...

There is a close synergism between measles and vitamin A deficiency that can result in xerophthalmia, with corneal ulceration, keratomalacia, and subsequent corneal scarring or phthisis bulbi. High-dose oral vitamin A supplementation is recommended for all children with measles in developing countries.

Vitamin A deficiency contributes to blindness. Children without vit A deficiency? Don't go blind when they get measles.
 
Old 02-07-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,268,189 times
Reputation: 34058
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
There are no statistics.

There's a lot of 'may have,' 'could have,' 'could lead to' language.

Which isn't fact. Kinds of like saying the temps may drop below freezing in SoFL.

It can happen. Doesn't mean it's the norm, doesn't mean it happens a lot, means it 'could' happen, maybe once every 10 years. So a nonstarter.

So again: SPECIFICALLY: how many people who had measles were blind, deaf and brain damaged? The fact that there is no statistic means it rarely happens.

But continue to be horrifically terrified of a disease that was a punch line in a Brady Bunch and Donna Reed episode. Seriously be as terrified and angry and anxious as you like. It's your prerogative. Just stop shoving that on everyone else in the form of must get vaccinated rhetoric.
Geezus quit being so obtuse.

Quote:
According to the researchers, SSPE is a “devastating condition” that causes cognitive and motor deterioration, with death usually occurring 1 to 3 years after symptom onset. Previously, the rate of SSPE was estimated to be one in 100,000 people in developed countries but 100 times higher in some developing regions. More recent estimates showed that SSPE occurred in one in 5,560 children infected with measles before 1 year of age in England and Wales, and one in 1,700 children infected before 5 years of age in Germany.

To determine the incidence of SSPE in California, Cherry and colleagues reviewed state death certificates, CDC reports and information on investigations regarding undiagnosed neurologic diseases. They identified 17 cases of SSPE that occurred from 1998 to 2015 among children who were infected with measles before vaccination. Among them, 12 developed measles or a compatible febrile rash illness by 15 months of age before developing SSPE.

The average age at SSPE diagnosis was 12 years (range 3-35 years), with a latency period of 9.5 years (range, 2.5-34). Most patients reportedly had long-standing cognitive or motor problems that may have been early symptoms of SSPE, the researchers noted. However, they all eventually developed cognitive and motor decline. Based on available information, 10 patients had died and only one who was born in 2011 is known to be alive.

Additional investigations revealed that seven children were exposed to measles in California during a resurgence between 1988 and 1991, when more than 9,500 cases were reported in children younger than 5 years of age. During this time, the rate of SSPE was estimated to be one in 1,367 among children infected with measles before 5 years of age, and one in 609 infants infected before 1 year of age.
https://www.healio.com/infectious-di...nated-children
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a progressive neurological disorder of children and young adults that affects the central nervous system (CNS). It is a slow, but persistent, viral infection caused by defective measles virus.
 
Old 02-07-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,811,747 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Where? In third world countries? Yes.

Measles remains a major problem in developing countries, where it affects an estimated 30 million children a year and causes up to one million deaths annually. Measles blindness is the single leading cause of blindness among children in low income countries, accounting for an estimated 15,000 to 60,000 cases of blindness per year.

So between 0.0005% and 0.002% of estimated measles cases in THIRD WORLD countries result in blindness. Estimated, of course.

Still terrified of going blind? Let's continue reading ...

There is a close synergism between measles and vitamin A deficiency that can result in xerophthalmia, with corneal ulceration, keratomalacia, and subsequent corneal scarring or phthisis bulbi. High-dose oral vitamin A supplementation is recommended for all children with measles in developing countries.

Vitamin A deficiency contributes to blindness. Children without vit A deficiency? Don't go blind when they get measles.

Since you are big on statistics, how many cases of blindness are specifically from the synergism of contracting measles with a vitamin A Deficiency?
 
Old 02-07-2019, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,746,928 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
[/b]
Agree. No one was terrified 24/7 like they are today. Freaking out, upset that other people make different choices. The 90s were the end of free choice, where people really didn't care what other people did. No one applauded you or held a parade, but they left you alone and went about their own business, and knew that you would treat them the same. There was a quiet form of tolerance for everyone.

Now? If you disagree with whatever talking point is on the approved MSM you are considered a moron, idiot, terrorist, bigot, homophobe, science-denier, woman hating, religious baiting racist. Doesn't matter if your assessment is correct. Doesn't matter if you are indeed 100% CORRECT. If you disagree, no matter what your reasoning, your evidence doesn't matter. People would rather be terrified than use critical thinking skills. People would rather force their views on everyone else, rather then leave people alone. Tolerance means everyone has to agree with YOU.

It's pathetic.
Can't speak for everyone, but I remember well the lines at the clinics for first, the Salk polio vaccine, and later, the Sabin polio vaccine. Yes, I had both. I was also warned against going near the gutters of our tract home subdivision in the summer.

People absolutely were terrified of polio. Seeing people in iron lungs will do that to you. Obviously, that's an experience you haven't had - thanks, ironically, to vaccines.

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-07-2019 at 09:25 AM..
 
Old 02-07-2019, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,746,928 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I got chicken pox shortly before the vaccine became widely available and remember friends coming over to get chicken pox from me.

Then the chicken pox spread to my eyes and it was a lot of very scary medical appointments. I still wonder if that's why my vision is SO bad - my parents don't need glasses in their 60s and my brother doesn't have glasses, but I'm in my early 30s and my eyes get worse and worse every year. Even my 87 year old grandmother's prescription is far less severe than mine! I can't even navigate my apartment without my glasses on.

Even worse, I got shingles at 23. I have never been in more pain in my life (and I've had a bone marrow biopsy - you can't numb bone) and to this day still have no feeling on my outer leg from my hip to my knee except for occasional severe pain. I can always develop shingles AGAIN and still have 40 years before I qualify for the vaccine against it.

I'm in complete support for the vaccine. It's easy to say it's no big deal if it *was* no big deal to you, but here I am with relative minimal complications and it still impacts my life.

Measles were serious in times past. One of my uncles is "slow" following brain swelling from measles. Numerous people lost their fertility or hearing as children due to the illness. And yes, kids died.
Measles is still serious - https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/healt...eak/index.html

Imagine what the parents of those kids would give for the measles vaccine. Imagine how they feel, knowing that it does exist, but they don't have access to it.

It's instructive to read about the history of smallpox and the smallpox vaccines. How preachers railed against the vaccine, because obviously if you got smallpox, god intended for you to die in utter misery, with your skin sloughing off your body.

(This remarkable woman would be my patron saint, if I had saints - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Mary_Wortley_Montagu)

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-07-2019 at 09:29 AM..
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