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Ah, two incomes....this is just the point of this thread. Surely you know that 50 years ago a worker in a tool and die shop in Detroit didn't need the wife to work (social issues aside). AND they could have children. AND they could buy a little house or cabin up on a lake.
Try that on one $18 an hour...along with saving for your retirement (yep, that worker got that too) and health care (yep, it was there)....
But, hey, it sounds like you are well and fine with being paid less and working more. However, unless you (in plural...people like you) reproduce and stuff like that it's gonna be one generation of Flat Screen TV's, smartphones and Alexa and done. That's not sustainable.
My daughter lives in a VERY high COL state. She just had a kid....about 8 months off paid. Her hubby gets 6 months off too...paternity leave. They are in Italy right now.
Can you do that in a low COL state? Maybe you don't know what you are missing? Or maybe you do? Or maybe you are not missing anything?
Point is...it's not all the same. Living and living full and well are two different things.
Whatever makes you think that anyone deserves to be paid for eight months that they're not working?
If you can negotiate that into your salary via a contract with your employer, that's fine.
But legislating that employers must pay maternity leave is another thing entirely.
And a two income family helps but it's not mandatory.
I moved from a high COL state to a low COL state AND doubled my salary within five years.
The high COL state was paying lower wages because there were no jobs and employers could pay dirt and people would take it because that's all there was.
The low COL state had low taxes, resulting in a booming economy that even weathered the recession well...
As a result, there were more jobs and higher wages.
Did we get rich? No.
But we did pretty well considering that my wife only has a two year degree and I'm a college drop out.
We "reproduced" but only one kid and not until we could afford it.
He's 26 now, just out of the Air Force, married and just gave us our first grandchild.
Meanwhile, Grandpa and Grandma are now empty nesters, spending our time riding Harleys, spoiling our Grandson and just bought our retirement house for a quarter million..... mostly in cash., (Our 10 year mortgage is lower than most people's car payment).
In our low COL state, that much buys you a 2700 square foot house on four and a half acres.
So we're pretty happy living full and well at the moment.
Whatever makes you think that anyone deserves to be paid for eight months that they're not working?
If you can negotiate that into your salary via a contract with your employer, that's fine.
But legislating that employers must pay maternity leave is another thing entirely.
We "reproduced" but only one kid and not until we could afford it.
He's 26 now, just out of the Air Force, married and just gave us our first grandchild.
Meanwhile, Grandpa and Grandma are now empty nesters, spending our time riding Harleys, spoiling our Grandson and just bought our retirement house for a quarter million..... mostly in cash., (Our 10 year mortgage is lower than most people's car payment).
So we're pretty happy living full and well at the moment.
But hey..... thanks for your concern.
Well, I'm from the "old daze" myself and never took (I was the boss) more than 10 days of vacation (straight) in 30+ years...
But the whole idea (American Dream) is that things should get better for my kids...and so it has. They don't want everything...they drive the 2005 Forester I gave to them 7 years ago. They don't own a vacation house and don't have any new furniture.
Granted, they chose jobs....you can do that when you are certain positions...that enhanced life as opposed to their bank account. For example, my daughter could be making 3 to 4X as much and those firms may not be as generous as where she works (Public Interest)....
I kept my nose to the grindstone but am VERY happy that my kids don't have to...they can live life and not wait for the so-called "Golden Years" (which, for many, are not so Golden).
My son made a different decision. He lives in a low COL area, so he has a house 3X the size of the daughter who gets 8 months off.
It's a whole different ball of wax to discuss parental leave and the good it does for society. Sometimes thing that you think COST money actually save money...is we use the true value of actions to society. As you know, we don't...which is why a stay-at-home mom isn't valued in dollars (yet).
If one can find a happy medium they may have it made. But it's really not so simple - the relatively low COL area I stay in FL...46% of the population is barely making it, so the theory of "low COL makes it easier" is right out the window.
Besides, a lot of us snobs are stuck on the Ocean and Bays...can't be far away...and that costs the big bucks.
Human beings are the most adaptable species on the planet. We are capable of learning new skills throughout our life. I'm pretty sure we'll be okay.
If I take you on a close-up tour of parts of WV and KY you won't feel the same way. Those who stayed are very likely doing much of the same thing (if that....often they are doing nothing) that they did 100 years ago.
Sure, the BIG "we" adapt, but the little "we" does not. That's a lot of suffering people...which is one reason we developed enlightened societies that allow us to actually ponder and mitigate problems.
Well, I'm from the "old daze" myself and never took (I was the boss) more than 10 days of vacation (straight) in 30+ years...
But the whole idea (American Dream) is that things should get better for my kids...and so it has. They don't want everything...they drive the 2005 Forester I gave to them 7 years ago. They don't own a vacation house and don't have any new furniture.
Granted, they chose jobs....you can do that when you are certain positions...that enhanced life as opposed to their bank account. For example, my daughter could be making 3 to 4X as much and those firms may not be as generous as where she works (Public Interest)....
I kept my nose to the grindstone but am VERY happy that my kids don't have to...they can live life and not wait for the so-called "Golden Years" (which, for many, are not so Golden).
My son made a different decision. He lives in a low COL area, so he has a house 3X the size of the daughter who gets 8 months off.
It's a whole different ball of wax to discuss parental leave and the good it does for society. Sometimes thing that you think COST money actually save money...is we use the true value of actions to society. As you know, we don't...which is why a stay-at-home mom isn't valued in dollars (yet).
If one can find a happy medium they may have it made. But it's really not so simple - the relatively low COL area I stay in FL...46% of the population is barely making it, so the theory of "low COL makes it easier" is right out the window.
Besides, a lot of us snobs are stuck on the Ocean and Bays...can't be far away...and that costs the big bucks.
Businesses don't exist for "the good of society".
They exist to make money.
Kind of hard to do that in a high tax, high COL state, especially if you also have to pay employees for eight months at a clip when they're not actually there doing anything.
Kind of hard to do that in a high tax, high COL state, especially if you also have to pay employees for eight months at a clip when they're not actually there doing anything.
You'd have to consider it in a different light.
Firstly, at least 2 of those months are built-up vacation and sick time from working there for many years. So it may be 6 months of paid maternity.
In CA - 12 weeks is the "mandate" - and even that is not with pay (unless the employer wants to - which most DO).....and even that is limited to larger companies.
"If these requirements are met, the employee is entitled to take up to 12 weeks of family care and medical leave in any given 12-month period. This leave can be used for the purpose of child bonding."
My Daughter is an engineer and an attorney (top schools and top of class in both). To retain such employees for a lifetime, firms - even non-profits - offer a lifestyle (flex-time, working from home, etc.) that allows for a full life. If you are working a McJob you won't see these types of benefits.
Lawyering at certain levels is much different than "how many hours and cases can I get in and how much billing can I do?". Decisions and methods can make the difference between winning and losing of cases that affect EVERY American (and even the world in general).
Everything is not "by the hour" and profit making. In fact, none of my 3 children work this way - all are in teaching or social services, etc....with sideline of their own in real estate and hobbies (income producing).
I certainly couldn't provide 6 months to my retail shop employees. They did get 3 weeks paid vacation, bonus, profit sharing and more...which was pretty good for a mom and pop shop.
In my ideal world, work and life are as one...I must say now that I am not working I may want to start doing so again! On the other hand I am enjoying working (volunteering, etc.) where I am the servant and someone else is the boss and client. It's humbling and educational. I also love DIY stuff and, for the first time, I coudl care less about my "efficiency" in doing things....can take all day to do a DIY job worth $40.
Anyway, I love it that my daughter was able to come here - cross country - with our grand kid since she lives so far. And, then she can go to Europe....and to the Coast for hikes, etc.
Maybe if I had gotten the education she did I would have been able to do so. But that's water over the dam.
Firstly, at least 2 of those months are built-up vacation and sick time from working there for many years. So it may be 6 months of paid maternity.
In CA - 12 weeks is the "mandate" - and even that is not with pay (unless the employer wants to - which most DO).....and even that is limited to larger companies.
"If these requirements are met, the employee is entitled to take up to 12 weeks of family care and medical leave in any given 12-month period. This leave can be used for the purpose of child bonding."
My Daughter is an engineer and an attorney (top schools and top of class in both). To retain such employees for a lifetime, firms - even non-profits - offer a lifestyle (flex-time, working from home, etc.) that allows for a full life. If you are working a McJob you won't see these types of benefits.
Lawyering at certain levels is much different than "how many hours and cases can I get in and how much billing can I do?". Decisions and methods can make the difference between winning and losing of cases that affect EVERY American (and even the world in general).
Everything is not "by the hour" and profit making. In fact, none of my 3 children work this way - all are in teaching or social services, etc....with sideline of their own in real estate and hobbies (income producing).
I certainly couldn't provide 6 months to my retail shop employees. They did get 3 weeks paid vacation, bonus, profit sharing and more...which was pretty good for a mom and pop shop.
In my ideal world, work and life are as one...I must say now that I am not working I may want to start doing so again! On the other hand I am enjoying working (volunteering, etc.) where I am the servant and someone else is the boss and client. It's humbling and educational. I also love DIY stuff and, for the first time, I coudl care less about my "efficiency" in doing things....can take all day to do a DIY job worth $40.
Anyway, I love it that my daughter was able to come here - cross country - with our grand kid since she lives so far. And, then she can go to Europe....and to the Coast for hikes, etc.
Maybe if I had gotten the education she did I would have been able to do so. But that's water over the dam.
Maybe maybe not, I am a professional chemical engineer who has been under employed for over a year. I am glad I never had any kids of my own, I could not imagine exposing them to the proliferation of McJobs and having to work like a dog to still have one foot in a McJob
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,587,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
It’s the factory workers responsibility to make his way in the world. It’s no one else’s responsibility to turn the factory worker into anything.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,587,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
No, that would be you.
It's no one's responsibility but yours to retrain yourself.
Government is not your Mommy.
And I'm certainly not your Daddy via taxation.
With low skill jobs being replaced by automation, and half the population with IQ's below 100, they won't have the intelligence nor cognitive ability to "retrain".
That's the point!
So what should they do? A mass hari kari?
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