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Old 02-08-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
Right, I mentioned that.

But your employer also pays a significant portion of your income tax that you never see to begin with. It's a shell game. Would just become the employer paid health tax contribution. Or ideally, just redirected to our pay.
you really think you would get a 1500/month raise???? not happening
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,132,047 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post


Of course. But some of it is treatable. At expenses over a million/year.

In a pure for profit out of your pocket system. Who can afford that?
My father-in-law.... the NON millionaire. With our help of course.... But hey..... reach in my pocket again.....

Here it is in a nutshell... I do want what's best for everyone; Some of us were born wealthy (not me). Some were born poor. (Again, not me... squarely lower middle class here). The fact is that life isn't fair. And the fact that you keep using the word free health care, free college, free, free, free is the biggest bold faced lie on the face of the earth. The word should be outlawed from use in politics. When Bernie says free college instead he should look at people and tell the truth. Never uttering that word. Because the lemmings get all jacked up that they are going to get free crap. Instead... tell them the truth. When AOC harps about free health care, instead tell them straight, out-right what it is going to cost them. And tell those of us who ARE paying what it is going to cost us. No "oh, you should do this because it feels good,". No "oh my God you are so uncaring because we need a better society". This society was lost a long time ago. Tell the truth. You can't guarantee reductions in cost. You can't guarantee that five years down the road we won't be paying 50% of our income. You can't guarantee jack squat. And yes, to be quite honest, I don't and won't listen to a word out of their mouths because of it. The pandering needs to STOP!
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:21 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,075,058 times
Reputation: 17204
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantiquity View Post
What is the poll result when asking about paying for it when the public sees the actual cost of Universal health care....I believe it drops to the opposite side.

New Poll: Medicare for All Is Popular Until You Explain How It Works


https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/24/n...r-all-is-popul
Paying more in taxes would be irrelevant and incomplete. Maybe I will pay more in taxes. I'll be paying nothing out of every paycheck though outside of taxes. Paying more in taxes does not mean you are paying more.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,132,047 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I take it you never had health insurance.

I have insurance, and pay for others every month although I rarely use any services myself.
You haven't read the whole post.... My families cost of health insurance is over 10K per year.... tell me again how I'm not paying....
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Obviously that would depend on how it is set up. Some of the cost could come from corporate taxes, some from individual taxes, and some from VAT.
1. there is not a VAT yet

2. what would be better (and more equal) would be something similar to a AVT, but eliminate the income/estate/corporate taxes all together, and install a federal consumption tax in place of the income tax (50% of income is never reported..too many people work off the books (which is actually stealing from the government)

www.fairtax.org
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Paying more in taxes would be irrelevant and incomplete. Maybe I will pay more in taxes. I'll be paying nothing out of every paycheck though outside of taxes. Paying more in taxes does not mean you are paying more.
and on top of the outrageous taxes on the individual taxpayer..you are still responsible for 20%+ of the cost of care... medicare is a 80/20 INSURANCE
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,964 posts, read 12,536,791 times
Reputation: 8881
This is all useless debate until you control the cost end.

Big pharma

Evergreening
debranding
collusion
exclusives on OFF PATENT medicines
No price negotiation

Big hospitals
out of network providers
buying to kill facilities
Certificate of need games
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,434,384 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
And if the employer is fair, they will put that 1500 savings into your salary so your total compensation is the same, right?

The Chamber of Commerce and business alliances should all be clamoring for Medicare For All to get the monkey of healthcare off their backs. Business should focus on business, not providing healthcare for their employees.
not going to happen, your employer (big or small) is not going to give you a 1500/month (18k annually) raise

plus if you get that raise (which you wont) you are now in a higher tax bracket..so you get screwed three times more
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,964 posts, read 12,536,791 times
Reputation: 8881
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
and on top of the outrageous taxes on the individual taxpayer..you are still responsible for 20%+ of the cost of care... medicare is a 80/20 INSURANCE
All insurance should have copays and deductibles. Even universal insurance. They are important gate keepers. A GP visit should cost you ~$25.00 or so. An operation should cost you something out of pocket.
They should simply not be bankrupting.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,132,047 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
not going to happen, your employer (big or small) is not going to give you a 1500/month (18k annually) raise

plus if you get that raise (which you wont) you are now in a higher tax bracket..so you get screwed three times more
And the response from the left:...."But it's free for me!!!" Or "I make too much money now and don't qualify for my other subsidies so I need to cut back my hours."
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