Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Confederate Flag/Why Many Don't View It As Southern Heritage
IMO this thread should just be retitled "Confederate Flag/Why BLACKS Don't View It As Southern Heritage"... and there was no need for it. Of course blacks descended from slaves wouldn't embrace the Confederate Flag as a positive symbol of Southern Heritage.
But since my high school days of taking various history classes (American, Russian, German and Ancient), and I am a collector of antiques, I've seen various history buffs conduct reenactments of famous battles. There was a lot of strategy involved in these battles, and they are studied like chess players study the past game strategies of the top chess masters.
And growing up in Concord, MA, the locals were particularly involved in reenacting the various skirmishes and battles between the Brits and the Americans. And in the 1980's, I got acquainted with a group that would reenact WWII battles between the Americans and the Germans. Serious reenactors spents lots of money for their outfits. Collecting antique and reproduction weaponry and uniforms to wear at their events.
And growing up, the Confederate Flag was a common symbol for Southern rock bands. And there was nothing racist about their style of music. A Confederate flag was just an indication that a person was someone who lived south of the Mason-Dixon line.
I don't and never will have any problems with white people from the South flying their Confederate flags. It was flown during a significant period in our country's history. And the Civil War was not just about slavery. And it's not as if Southerners invented slavery, plus those slaves were sourced and bought from African natives selling off the people from the African tribal people that they dominated (and even to this today, there is genocide going on between warring African peoples).
And the meanings for icons and symbols do change over time. For instance, in the 1980's in Boston, a local group of racially diverse politicians called themselves the "Rainbow Coalition", but now the LGBT community has taken over the rainbow symbol.
How many books have been written about the proposed amendments?
No idea. But I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "proposed amendments". The only amendment that was seriously considered, and which made it through Congress was the Corwin amendment.
Both president James Buchanan and Abraham Lincoln supported the Corwin amendment. And Lincoln said repeatedly that he would never interfere with slavery where it already exists. So why did the south still insist on secession?
No General Welfare Clause, state oversight of federal officials who operate in their states, a "line-item veto", a complete overhaul of the commerce clause and the prohibition of the government from promoting/subsidizing any industry, the federal government cannot tax for the sake of internal infrastructure except lighthouses and improvements to harbors/rivers, the post office must pay for itself, no more "omnibus spending bills" because all spending/laws must be one bill at a time, no more "discretionary" spending at all, only a single presidential term of six years, reference to "almighty god", non-citizens cannot vote in elections, and only three states are required to start a constitutional convention.
And somewhat-strangely, they made it far easier to amend the Constitution by reducing the required number of states from 3/4ths to 2/3rds.
To me, as a southerner, I feel it's important to recognize my fallen ancestors and their lives they gave to fight in the Civil War. My great great grandfather and his father both died fighting for South Carolina and what they believed in. They also were dirt farmers who owned slaves.
I don't visit their graves. I don't live in the past. Honestly, other than the pure history of it (I like the stories of the past and the geneology of it all) I don't have a feeling or care or opinion about anything that happened 200 years ago.
I don't think that I should be held accountable for their actions.
My next-door neighbor growing up was a Civil War re-enactor and he and his sons would dress up like Confederates and fight battles with other actors. His wife was a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and they very much celebrated their southern heritage.
Did I feel any differently towards him as I did my Nazi sympathizer crazy neighbor who lived across the street? Or my black neighbor that lived a few doors down? Probably. We all have different views about different people and I'm sure I thought my southern heritage neighbor was just a tad on the redneck side of things, but they were still good people.
The crazy Nazi sympathizer blew his brains out one day after a long weekend of binge drinking by the way.
Do I understand why people are proud of the Confederate Flag? I mean, I guess so. Half my immediate family is from deep south SC and my dad's side is from Michigan. The only civil war memorabilia our family still owns is from dad's side of the family. We still have a full captain's Union federal uniform.
But, if you are a person who honors and respects your family's history, and you're proud of the way they fought in battle, gave their lives, etc I can see where the Confederate flag could mean a lot to you.
Personally, I think most people I know who fly the flag do so to anger the SJW's and to get into arguments with other people. To me most people just fly it to troll other people.
So, yeah, being southern means we have to constantly be reminded of how terrible our forefathers were and how we are responsible for slavery etc. We also got our butts kicked.
Some folks have a hard time letting go I suppose.
In a nutshell, the Confederate flag to this southerner is a part of my history, a part of my heritage, a symbol of racism and of a horrible time in our country, and a source of division - all rolled up into one.
The Confederate flag means nothing to me, even though I am a born and raised southern girl, but my family came from NY, and before that, came from Germany and Italy around WW1 and WW2. I feel no sense of pride with it, but I also feel no shame or hate for it either. However, I will see people driving around me with the flags of their home countries in their cars and homes, and it has me a bit baffled if their home countries were so great, then how come they aren't there instead of the USA? I can understand having pride in your people, like I have in the Italian and German in me, but the flags themselves are a disgrace and my family has long since turned our backs on the very same government that wanted to make our lives miserable.
You gotta remember - the flag designs of current day Italy and Germany are different than the flags during the Fascist and Nazi era. That is by design and to disassociate today's Germany and Italy with the negative connotations with the WWII era.
That's a totally different circumstance of a Southerner displaying a Confederate flag.
You discount this claim but many blacks ARE brainwashed by the liberal media into believing the Confederate flag is racist, just like they are brainwashed into believing Trump is racist. CNN would run article that state "a symbol of racism" as if its a fact. I personally do believe in a Southern pride and American nationalism that transcends race. The Democrats use race to get many middle class blacks to vote against their economic and religious self interest. Most blacks in the South are as pro-life as whites but they vote for the party of abortion, for example.
Billy Joe Jim Bob Chan, just stop already.
Seems like you, an Asian American transplant in the South, has been brainwashed into the myth of the Conferederate flag and "Southern heritage". Probably the only involvement with the Civil War your ancestors had was civil war in China.
The Confederate flag definitely DOESN'T transcend race, and it is extremely divisive - and you know that.
Last edited by silverkris; 02-10-2019 at 10:11 AM..
I don't and never will have any problems with white people from the South flying their Confederate flags. It was flown during a significant period in our country's history. And the Civil War was not just about slavery. And it's not as if Southerners invented slavery, plus those slaves were sourced and bought from African natives selling off the people from the African tribal people that they dominated (and even to this today, there is genocide going on between warring African peoples).
Not surprised of this coming from you, a poster with a track record of hostile, dismissive and condenscending posts about African Americans.
Both flags convey some meaning to me that has nothing to do with racism or slavery. It is a symbol of a nation, divided. And I suspect that is true of many other families. But its major symbolic use today is diabolical.
Correct - and that is reinforced when you look at when the bulk of Confederate monuments were erected - as a symbol of resistance to black people asserting their civil rights.
There are people who think the goal of the Iraq War was to spread democracy. Is it true?
We tend to take the motives of a few, and present them as the motives of all. There are at least four different groups of people who were in favor of the Iraq War.
1) Those who believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was funding terrorism, making him an immediate-threat to the United States.
2) Those who believed Saddam Hussein was a tyrant, and who believed it was their moral duty to spread freedom and democracy to Iraq.
These first two include most "normal people". The next two apply only to a specific class of people...
3) Those who believed Saddam Hussein's regime destabilized the Middle-East, and was undermining American National Interests.
4) Those who wanted to maintain control of middle-east oil.
So what was the real purpose of the Iraq War? Basically, all of these narratives are true, but which is the most-true?
The same logic applies to the Civil War. Was Abraham Lincoln fighting a war to end slavery? Were the confederate soldiers fighting a war to preserve slavery?
What has happened with history, is that a single narrative has been pulled-out and held up as the reason for the Civil War. This narrative is of course wrong. Abraham Lincoln DID NOT, nor would he EVER fight a war to end slavery. And likewise, almost everyone in the south thought they were fighting for independence.
To say that the south was fighting to preserve slavery, is to say that the southern soldier was willing to fight and die in a war to keep blacks enslaved. Imagine for a moment that you were southern man who had ancestors who were Confederate soldiers, would you feel differently about that flag?
I could care less what people think a flag represents. The American flag flew over slavery from 1776 to 1865, and four "northern" states had slavery throughout the entire Civil War. The emancipation proclamation didn't free the slaves. So why does nearly everyone believe it did?
If you read all of the Articles of Secession for all of the Confederate states, you will find that the one recurring theme is the preservation of the rights of white men to own black human beings. As with all wars, this one was sold to the youth who would be fighting it as something entirely different than protecting the interests of the wealthy class.
Alexander Stephens 'Cornerstone Speech' is another dead giveaway.
Lincoln, BTW, didn't start the war. Southern traitors did.
The Confederate IS simply the symbol of the South and we fly it out of pride for our identity the way people of Irish descent fly the Irish flag, the way Jews fly the Israeli flag, etc. Of course there are some Southerners who lack pride, just like there are Americans who lack pride and don't fly the US flag, etc etc
And if a Mexican American flies the Mexican flag, folks like you would rant about him or her not assimilating, being illegal, not really "American", etc. Puhleez.
The Confederate IS simply the symbol of the South and we fly it out of pride for our identity the way people of Irish descent fly the Irish flag, the way Jews fly the Israeli flag, etc. Of course there are some Southerners who lack pride, just like there are Americans who lack pride and don't fly the US flag, etc etc
I understand the point you are making, but I think,
As humans, we best understand the world around us by categorizing things in distinct ways. We have a tendency to mark something as either incredibly racist or a symbol of regional pride, disregarding the fact that different people raise that flag for different reasons.
The Confederate battle flag is explicitly a symbol of the South in the United States. And to get at the core of what it should mean as a symbol, you have to understand the different issues at play during the Civil War. Different schools teach different lessons when it comes to explaining the Civil War’s causes.
Without getting into history which is probably another topic, Let me just say that there have been so many issues in American politics in which we, in the process of trying to prove that one side is right or wrong, have further divided our nation without care for the consequences.
The issue many people face with the bearing of the Confederate battle flag is that it is racist in and of itself. To many, and some would argue a majority of the people, who fly this flag or otherwise display it, it is a symbol of southern pride.
I know two people who fly the flag; both of them are from the south, both of them are white, both of them displayed the flag I think in battlefield in ME. They are proud to live in the south and they are proud to be southern warriors. NONE will fly the flag anywhere else in the United States. The funny thing is, I asked both of them if they had family members fought for the south, they both said, their family members have fought both the North and the South. So the reason they displayed the flag in ME is simply showing they were proud to be southern warriors. Nothing more/less.
I completely understand why some consider it to be a symbol of white supremacy or racism, but fighting the flying of the Confederate flag is not essential to fighting racism because the people who fly it are not inevitably racist.
It is important to understand the history of symbols and to be sensitive to what your words and actions might mean to other people, but we must be conscientious of all viewpoints, not just our own.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 02-10-2019 at 11:00 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
