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Great comment by somebody in the comments: "Can we stop calling these people anti-vaxxers and starting calling them what they really are. Pro-disease."
Dear Lord, what an idiot. "I had all the diseases and I'm fine!" Good on you. Now let's talk to those contemporaries of yours who died - oh, wait, we can't, can we? That's why we use math and structured observation and careful measurements to see what works and what doesn't.
Vaccine preventable diseases are not just little sniffles. If they were, there would be no vaccines for them.
People get flu vaccines every year even though the efficacy is about 50%. I am not an anti-vaxer. But I do believe that our medical system has turned into a money making machine and it is pushing unnecessary treatments on people.
People get flu vaccines every year even though the efficacy is about 50%. I am not an anti-vaxer. But I do believe that our medical system has turned into a money making machine and it is pushing unnecessary treatments on people.
Why are vaccines "unnecessary treatments"?
Could you give examples of "unnecessary treatments"?
An effectiveness of 50% means cutting the risk of getting flu in half. Some years are better than that.
Nevermind that we just had an outbreak because of this very mentality..
I was listening to a segment about it on Doctor radio the other day and they said the real sufferers are babies who are exposed to these kids because you can't immunize them before they are 12 months old.
Yeah....its all about the....0.5% of their income from vaccines. LOL.
No its not about the money. Its about 1 in 1,000 kids dying from measles alone. 74.2 million people under 18 in the us, so its about 742,000 kids being alive instead of dead.
Congrats on making it to 67 without a Dr. Know what we would hear from folks who didnt make it? Nothing because they're dead.
Wow. I agree with you AGAIN. That's like twice in one week. Are you feeling ok?
The good news is that all the people who got measles are now completely fine and immune as measles has a whopping .1% mortality rate in the U.S..
30% of measles patients have at least one complication from the disease, ranging from the mild, like diarrhea (though that can be dehydrating if extreme) to loss of intellectual capacity from measles encephalitis, and a lot in between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour
People get flu vaccines every year even though the efficacy is about 50%. I am not an anti-vaxer. But I do believe that our medical system has turned into a money making machine and it is pushing unnecessary treatments on people.
I don't agree, and anyway that has nothing to do with vaccines. People who say "I'm not an anti-vaxer. But" usually are anti-vax.
Good post - but some of us were Polio Pioneers in 1954, and received the series of three shots at school. It was the largest clinical trial of its kind then, and over 1.8 million children, in grades one through three, participated. Unfortunately for me, I received the placebo and had to have the series of three shots repeated, once the top-secret info about which Polio Pioneer got the real stuff (Salk vaccine) and which of us did not was revealed. I was in the latter category - my mother just told me there was something wrong with the first shots, so I had to get them again. I was very upset, as the shots were quite painful (big needles then), so was bribed with the promise of a new toy each time if I didn't act up in the doctor's office - odd, since I had never ever acted up at the doctor's previously. I behaved myself, but had tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat each time I got a polio shot - probably produced just as much by fear and apprehension as by the actual pain of the big needles.
We also got tetanus/diphtheria/whooping cough shots at school, as well as Schick tests - parents had to sign permission slips. We had to be vaccinated against smallpox before we could enter public school, as I recall - for some unknown reason, I had to be vaccinated twice, once when I was around five and again when I was eight or nine. I also got the Sabin sugar cube vaccine for polio when I was in fifth or sixth grade - it covered more forms of polio than did the earlier Salk vaccine, so even though my peers and I had received the earlier vaccine, we also got the sugar cube version.
As for measles, I missed two weeks of third grade (including the Valentine Party and most of the unit on American Indians) with measles. My classmates sent me valentines which my mother picked up at the nearby school (I don't remember who stayed with me while my mother went to the school - probably a neighbor mom). Window shades were drawn, I ran a fairly high temperature and was kept in bed and forbidden to read (my mother read to me) and the pediatrician made at least one house call that I remember.
I had previously survived chicken pox (in kindergarten - still have a scar on my forehead from it) and had the mumps in fourth or fifth grade, a day after finding about twenty four-leaf clovers in my back yard. They were floating in a bowl on my bedside table when the pediatrician again visited me - kinda shot down my faith in their bringing good luck!
I later survived an unidentified illness which struck in August when I was eight and a half, while I was attending a swimming party. The mother of the birthday honoree saw that I was ill and called my parents to pick me up. I felt awful - chills and scratchy throat - but wanted to stay for the birthday cake and ice cream! It turned out my fever was 103, so I was popped into bed and the doctor, a colleague of my late physician grandfather, was called.
My parents and I were visiting my grandmother, who lived in a small town in southern Virginia. My temperature was 105, night and day, for five or more days. I ached all over and had the sniffles and an upset stomach, fainted while trying to get back into bed after a bathroom visit, lost five pounds, was weak and pretty miserable. The very kind doctor came twice a day and gave me what were probably penicillin shots daily. There was no hospital nearby and the very experienced doctor's diagnostic testing ability was limited. My cousins were kept away, and my mother was the only adult allowed to stay with me for any length of time - I can remember my great aunt, who lived with my widowed grandmother, waving to me from the bedroom door but venturing no farther.
Many years later, as an adult myself, I learned that the adults in my family were terribly concerned that that I might have non-paralytic polio...not covered by the Salk vaccine. They were also concerned about my three cousins, with whom I'd spent time shortly before getting sick and two of whom were at the swimming party - they remained healthy, as did the other kids at that party, so it was probably something I'd caught before traveling to my grandmother's home.
I was sick for over two weeks and spent the convalescent phase in bed, reading comic books and books which had belonged to my grandmother and great aunt and father during their childhoods, drinking lots of milk and eating French bread with butter - the only things that tasted good. Relieved, my parents and grandmother kept me well-supplied with small toys from the nearby dime store (some of which I still have: Crazy Ikes, Mr. Potato Head, etc.). My great aunt bought me a back-to-school outfit. It was a scary time for everyone, with great relief following with my recovery.
I survived the measles and other childhood diseases, obviously, but another great aunt did not, many years previously (I come from a family with extremely long generations and descend from three generations of youngest children). She was a young married woman in her early twenties, with a toddler daughter when a severe measles epidemic struck the Fort Smith, Arkansas region in 1861-62 (before her youngest sister, my grandmother, was born).
Without vaccines or antibiotics, the disease quickly progressed into pneumonia and many died, even the young and previously healthy, like my great aunt. The measles epidemic struck down both civilian and military. My great aunt's little daughter also caught the measles, but survived, as did my great aunt's husband (who went on to marry three more times - he had hard luck with wives).
With this personal and family history, I find it unthinkable that parents would skip vaccinating their children for reasons which have been proven erroneous. I hope those currently infected with the measles will survive - and I hope the parents consult the doctors and get appropriate treatment for their sick kids.
This is a very hard lesson, but it's very clear where the blame should fall.
Wow, interesting story. Thanks for sharing. I am glad you are ok.
Great comment by somebody in the comments: "Can we stop calling these people anti-vaxxers and starting calling them what they really are. Pro-disease."
Seriously, you are trying to tie THIS to Trump?
Last edited by Ibginnie; 02-13-2019 at 05:32 PM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
Could you give examples of "unnecessary treatments"?
I never said that all vaccines are unnecessary but I would put flu vaccine in the category of not really necessary. Some years it does not work at all because they guess incorrectly what the flu virus will be when they make it. I haven't had the flu in 20 years and I never get the vaccine.
DW was urged to have her gall bladder removed due to digestion issue. She finally did and it did not change anything. I have had two sports injuries for which it was recommend that I have surgery to repair them. I declined and both healed on their own after about 2 years. And in general, arthroscopic surgeries have had very mixed results. Statins are pushed aggressively but studies have shown they do not reduce mortality. People are routinely given antibiotics for things that experts say they should not be, for instance a sore throat that is either viral or will just heal on its own. Narcotics being handed out like candy has created a huge problem. My mother's cousin got a hip replacement when he was 90 and died within a couple of months. 90! That is crazy, the doc should never have done it. My sister was urged to get a pacemaker, which she did, and in the three years that she has had it, it has not paced her heart a single time. She regrets getting it but they are almost impossible to remove.
Could you give examples of "unnecessary treatments"?
An effectiveness of 50% means cutting the risk of getting flu in half. Some years are better than that.
I would love to be able to get the flu shot. I can't due to an allergy and I've had super severe flu before when the flu shot worked for everyone else. 50% effectiveness? Yeah, I would take that ANY day. The BS from anti-vaxxers about the cost is just that, BS. You know what cost more? Getting the flu. Between days off of work, medicines to treat symptoms, and doctor visits if it gets too severe, getting the flu is costly. Yeah, 50% odds sound good to me.
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