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Old 02-14-2019, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofan View Post
This question is not specific to the US, but if capitalism brings so much wealth (and it does) why can´t families survive on a single income anymore like in the past when usually only men worked and women were not in the workforce?
Capitalism brings wealth to the owners of the corporations and land not to working people.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:34 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,972,033 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If so, then, no problem. They're making room at the top for younger generations, so what's your complaint? Why the foolish imploring to "get a job?"

Again, WHY on earth do you want those who don't need to work to support themselves (because they can live on their investment income) to displace those who NEED to earn an income to support themselves and their dependents? That makes NO sense whatsoever.
What makes no sense is a complete stranger deciding that someone else should retire.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:40 AM
 
19,623 posts, read 12,218,208 times
Reputation: 26417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Capitalism brings wealth to the owners of the corporations and land not to working people.
Depends on the working person's job. I've watched people become wealthy, even non college grads, just from working and being promoted in the right field and investing conservatively.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Depends on the working person's job. I've watched people become wealthy, even non college grads, just from working and being promoted in the right field and investing conservatively.
Those people aren't the majority though. Many people work just as hard in fields not valued by the market and are discarded or are crushed by poverty that is not right.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:00 AM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,704,134 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Welfare housing projects are collective public housing. How did those turn out? Chicago's Cabrini-Green was so abused by its collectivist residents that it had to be razed as it had become uninhabitable.
Collectivism destroys far more than individualism. The Cabrini-Green example I gave is just one example of many.

Well....you can't cherry pick and argue that what is true of a part is thus true of the whole. Ergo, the fallacy of division. Sure, there are example of collective failures. There are also examples of the failure of individuals. One cannot argue about the whole using anecdotes of failures.



Here is the question I always ask, philosophically. Which is superior, a sprinter or a marathon runner? There is no way of answering that question, intelligently, without knowing where the finish line is. Only the finish line will tell you which approach is better/superior. The same thing can be said for the capitalist vs socialist argument. There is no question that capitalism is more productive and consumptive than the socialist approach. Thus, in the short run, capitalism will produce much more than socialism can dream of producing. However, where is the finish line? What is the long term consequence of the "sprint" of capitalism? Will it burn out resources, the environment, etc? We don't know....but that is part of the argument of climate change, in theory. Too much production and pollution and erosion and depletion. Just like your muscles will burn out in an all out sprint.



The body cannot maintain that type hyper use of energy for a long time. It will get you much farther in a short period of time....than will jogging....but eventually the jogger will catch up to the sprinter the longer that time goes where they don't reach a finish line. How long does humanity have? If we have a thousand years....who is to say that capitalism will not prove to have been a bad approach in the long run?
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:03 AM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,605,427 times
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The "accepted cost" of living has risen. The amount of things and services that a modern family thinks they "must have" is much more.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:09 AM
 
30,153 posts, read 11,783,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
While I agree that ideally, nobody over 25 should be working a minimum wage job, it's not only about lack of ambition. In a typical fast food restaurant, there are, what, 2-3 managers and, say, 15-20 regular employees. All 15-20 of those employees simply cannot become manager. Even if just 5 of them are adults (not teens), there's no way for all of them to rise to a management position. And in some areas, there are only a few places to work if you aren't going to commute to another city. For someone without a reliable vehicle and no public transportation, that commute is not a feasible option, so the cycle perpetuates.
I have hired people for decades at my businesses and often hire people who have done fast food and other retail jobs at or near minimum wage. Its usually a lack of ambition that keeps them first from not getting an education or any training to improve themselves combined with their personal life with involves kids they cannot afford to take care of without assistance and various substance abuse problems and or a criminal record. Their life is usually one hot mess filled with excuses and missteps.

To be a food service supervisor or manager does not take that much intelligence. In most chains it means doing what you are told by upper management and following the rules. As long as they are not a "slow adult" they should be able to move up. Hard work and ambition can take the place of being the sharpest stick. I have promoted people on the slow side who work hard and are trustworthy.

And those who don't go beyond high school or even finish high school are often not the best and the brightest so the competition for a supervisors position is not that daunting.
And those sorts of businesses have high turn over so the opportunity to move up is there if one wants it.

All I am reading with your post is excuses for these people.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:42 AM
 
3,357 posts, read 1,233,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Because they are breeding before they can afford to feed them.
If this is the case we are doomed to extinction if families wait. We already see that in white, well-educated prosperous Millennials.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:52 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,163,673 times
Reputation: 18095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstarling View Post
If this is the case we are doomed to extinction if families wait. We already see that in white, well-educated prosperous Millennials.
Nope. Globally, there are almost 8 billion human beings. The problem is, that it's the impoverished, unskilled and under-educated people that are breeding in large numbers. But the solution isn't having the white, well-educated prosperous people make more babies. We really need to convince everyone to have moderate and sensible baby-making.

Poor people can never catch up to the wealthy people if they keep making lots of babies and to make them too early in their lives.

If the overall population of human beings globally could be kept to the 3-4 billion level, we wouldn't have to worry about food production, carbon emissions and a good quality of life for everyone. And our wildlife and oceans would be a lot happier too.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:55 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,670,317 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
In most chains it means doing what you are told by upper management and following the rules. As long as they are not a "slow adult" they should be able to move up.
That applies perfectly to some 200K plus executives I know! You do what you are told or what the company culture dictates. Be a good robot.

The only difference is that you need another skill to make it to the top. The "best words". If you use "no brainer" and "game changer" and "pivot" a lot AND do what you are told, you will make the executive suite.

No kidding. We knew many high placed executives through our various endeavors. We always scratched our heads because when we were meeting with them (say about a volunteer matter, or civic matter), something may be presented that says "we can borrow 6 million on a bond for 20 years to put lights on the kids soccer fields, but the electric bills and the yearly costs will be out of sight also"...and they say "it's a no brainer, go for it".

I finally befriended the CEO of one famous company who had been hired there because of his pedigree....with a Deodorant company! He had left the big times and found happiness in a small friend/family biz. We had a nice dinner out and he told me how he went from being a very poor Scottish kid to the big time. Long story short most of it was play acting. He was a caddy so he noticed how they hung together...and how they talked. He got into the "club" and once you get there you generally stay. But if you had the wrong manner of speaking or color of skin...no way (in those days...and probably still today in many of those corporate cultures).


There certainly isn't a 10 or 100 times difference in these dudes from the employees they sit upon.....like their compensation assumes there is. Some are actually expert at ruining a company. That pays big too...ask Chain Saw Al. He lives in same development in Hilton Head my folks used to reside in. He is even shunned by the CEO set. That takes real doing.
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