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I must say that after reading every comment on the Allentown, PA Morning Call newspaper's web site in relation to a jogger who was hit by a car in the suburbs, my blood is boiling. As a fellow suburban runner, I've nearly been hit by clueless drivers on frequent occasions. Here in Pennsylvania, extremely rapid suburban and exurban growth coupled with a generally uneducated population of developers has led to most people living in neighborhoods without sidewalks. Where I run here in the suburbs there aren't even shoulders on many high traffic roads, so I often come very near to holding up traffic as I run along the side of the road. Under Pennsylvania law, motor vehicles are supposed to "share" the roadway with bicyclists and pedestrians (which would include we runners). Nevertheless, that article elicited dozens of responses from motor vehicle drivers telling US to "get off the road."
Where the hell are we supposed to run, anyways? If you don't want to share the roadways with bicyclists and pedestrians, then why don't you beg for a major tax increase to fund the retrofitting of our suburbs and exurbs with sidewalks and bike lanes? It's either one or the other folks. I'm at the point now where I'm voicing my displeasure publicly about the lack of consideration from drivers locally on our congested suburban roadways, and many of my fellow runners and bicyclists agree wholeheartedly with me that the problem lies with motorists for failure to adhere to Pennsylvania's law, as well as local elected officials for NOT managing sprawl very well here in Metro Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Out in places like Louisville, CO people can run, jog, and bike on smooth, inviting sidewalks and bike paths, and that suburb is just as "cookie-cutter" looking as any 'burb here in PA. Since we're absent of those amenities, I'll continue to run IN the street and file a hefty law suit if and when one of you ignorant motorists with the "get off the road" mentality dares to hit me.
Roads were built for automobiles. Go jog at a park, in your yard, or on a treadmill.
I'm tired of having to dodge these cyclists and joggers on winding narrow roads...while they don't even attempt to move to the shoulder. Perhaps those in favor of biking/jogging trails should be the ones to pay for them rather than clogging up the roads.
Roads were built for automobiles. Go jog at a park, in your yard, or on a treadmill.
I'm tired of having to dodge these cyclists and joggers on winding narrow roads...while they don't even attempt to move to the shoulder. Perhaps those in favor of biking/jogging trails should be the ones to pay for them rather than clogging up the roads.
That's merely your "opinion." The law says otherwise. When in doubt I'll turn to a legal reference over "popular opinion." It's rather presumptuous of you to tell me where to run simply because we "inconvenience" you. With today's high gasoline prices why should I drive into the city to a gym when I SHOULD just be able to walk out the front door and go for a run? I'm not merely advocating biking/walking "trails," but rather I am demanding SHOULDERS or SIDEWALKS, which should come STANDARD with new development.
Pa Motor Vehicle Code (Title 75)
§ 3544. Pedestrians walking along or on highway.
(a) Mandatory use of available sidewalk.--Where a sidewalk is provided and its use is practicable, it is unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.
(b) Absence of sidewalk.--Where a sidewalk is not available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk only on a shoulder as far as practicable from the edge of the roadway.
(c) Absence of sidewalk and shoulder.--Where neither a sidewalk nor a shoulder is available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk as near as practicable to an outside edge of the roadway and, if on a two-way roadway, shall walk only on the left side of the roadway.
(d) Right-of-way to vehicles.--Except as otherwise provided in this subchapter, any pedestrian upon a roadway shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 04-09-2008 at 03:12 PM..
Reason: Made My Comments More Politically-Correct
Geez, you ask for opinions, and then run down a poster who posts their opinion.
Why didn't you ask for a legal decision instead of an opinion?
Take a look at the last line of your OP again.
BTW - My OPINION is that MamaBee is right. My other OPINION is that calling fellow posters "obnoxious" in stating their opinions in response to your request is insulting.
Geez, you ask for opinions, and then run down a poster who posts their opinion.
Why didn't you ask for a legal decision instead of an opinion?
Take a look at the last line of your OP again.
BTW - My OPINION is that MamaBee is right. My other OPINION is that calling fellow posters "obnoxious" in stating their opinions in response to your request is insulting.
"Obnoxious" might not have been the best word choice, so I have altered it accordingly to reflect something less flippant. I apologize for that. I was just "egged" on by the dozens of other nasty comments that motorists posted against pedestrians on the other message board. "Controversies" are meant to be...well..."controversial." Naturally there's going to be clashes in opinions.
When possible, I commute (even to the store or beach) via bicycle rather than car. Nowadays, I make a short daily round-trip work commute by jogging on foot, but there are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere I jog. That's one thing that delights me about living in urban areas; everything is close enough to walk/bike to and there's facilities for pedestrians and bicycles! Though everybody else seems to think I'm nuts for walking/biking.
I think public roadways are for commuters, not for recreational enthusiasts. If you just want to go for a jog or a leisurely bicycle ride, why not do it at a park, in an empty field, on a treadmill, or somewhere with sidewalks? If you are trying to get somewhere, then--by all means--use the roadway. That is what it is there for, regardless of your means of transportation.
By this logic, if you live far from the park, I would say it is acceptable to jog/bike there, even if the majority of your run/cycle will be commuting to and from the park, at least you are going somewhere.
If you are just out for a run on the public roadway--especially in high traffic areas or along roadways without saftey features for cyclists and pedestrians--you are no better than a "Sunday Driver" who is just out adding to traffic congestion for no good reason as you utilize the public roadway for a purpose other than for which it was intended.
As well, there have always been dangerous "ex-urban" roadways, it doesn't have much to do with sprawl. Except we used to call them "country roads." They've always been dangerous to ride or walk on, and not necessarily all that safe for driving as well. You might encounter unmarked lanes, farm machinery, washed-out bridges, one-lane traffic, unsigned hazards, etc. Just because some city folk or suburbanites plopped their big house down on a chunk of cornfield out in the styx doesn't mean the county is going to build them a nice jogging path or put up "share the road" signs everywhere.
If you want nice jogging paths, bike lanes, and improved roadways, maybe country life isn't suited for you and you should go move back to the city. I did, and I love it!
I suppose what I really wish to know is that in areas like Pennsylvania, where sidewalks are non-existent, where are we supposed to walk, jog, or run if motorists say we have no business being on the roadsides? Parks aren't very easily accessible for many of us either---I'm a 15-minute drive from the nearest designated "walking areas," and even then why should we be "contained" in certain areas as if they are concentration camps?
Roadways should be for moving people. Ideally, motor vehicles would be secondary to pedestrians and bicyclists. Just look at the average American waistline and it's painfully obvious that they're not.
They were originally built for walkers and horses and wagons. The big push for paving here in Seattle came from bicyclists before it came from motorists.
When possible, I commute (even to the store or beach) via bicycle rather than car. Nowadays, I make a short daily round-trip work commute by jogging on foot, but there are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere I jog. That's one thing that delights me about living in urban areas; everything is close enough to walk/bike to and there's facilities for pedestrians and bicycles! Though everybody else seems to think I'm nuts for walking/biking.
I don't know why anyone should think you're nuts for walking/biking. I respect you for doing your part to better the environment and for keeping yourself physically active as I survey my subdivision of largely overweight neighbors. The ones whom I think are "nuts" are the ones who commute to work alone in an SUV and then come onto City-Data to complain about high gas prices, which ironically were caused, in part, by Americans overconsuming fossil fuels by purchasing too many inefficient SUVs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
I think public roadways are for commuters, not for recreational enthusiasts. If you just want to go for a jog or a leisurely bicycle ride, why not do it at a park, in an empty field, on a treadmill, or somewhere with sidewalks? If you are trying to get somewhere, then--by all means--use the roadway. That is what it is there for, regardless of your means of transportation.
As previously mentioned the nearest "parks" to my home are fifteen minutes away. Empty fields are being plowed over to make way for new sprawl now, and most empty land near my home is privately-owned with no public access permitted. We DO own a treadmill, and whenever I run on it I cause it to malfunction after a mere half-hour, when it abruptly stops. Furthermore, running for 10 miles in the same spot is VERY depressing to me---emotionally it feels like you've accomplished nothing. Somewhere with sidewalks? You're obviously not familiar with much of Sprawlsylvania.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
By this logic, if you live far from the park, I would say it is acceptable to jog/bike there, even if the majority of your run/cycle will be commuting to and from the park, at least you are going somewhere.
Unfortunately my bike ride to the park would once again be along shoulder-less roadways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
If you are just out for a run on the public roadway--especially in high traffic areas or along roadways without saftey features for cyclists and pedestrians--you are no better than a "Sunday Driver" who is just out adding to traffic congestion for no good reason as you utilize the public roadway for a purpose other than for which it was intended.
According to state law though it is permissible for pedestrians, bicyclists, and drivers to share the public roadways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
As well, there have always been dangerous "ex-urban" roadways, it doesn't have much to do with sprawl. Except we used to call them "country roads." They've always been dangerous to ride or walk on, and not necessarily all that safe for driving as well. You might encounter unmarked lanes, farm machinery, washed-out bridges, one-lane traffic, unsigned hazards, etc. Just because some city folk or suburbanites plopped their big house down on a chunk of cornfield out in the styx doesn't mean the county is going to build them a nice jogging path or put up "share the road" signs everywhere.
Perhaps they should. Traditional neighborhoods of the pre-autocentricity era ALL had sidewalks, curbs, shoulders, street lights, etc. Now developers don't include any of these amenities because they know that most suburbanites here don't exercise anyways. I just feel very "jipped" to know that we suburbanites pay higher taxes than urban-dwellers, yet we can't even have our government build us a sidewalk or a shoulder along our roadways. It just doesn't seem very fair to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42
If you want nice jogging paths, bike lanes, and improved roadways, maybe country life isn't suited for you and you should go move back to the city. I did, and I love it!
Thanks. I'm actually planning to move into the city once I can afford to. At age 21 I don't yet have enough of a financial backing to purchase my own home. For the life of me I'll NEVER raise my own children in the suburbs---where are they supposed to walk, run, play, etc.? I just don't understand how the masses of Americans honestly don't care that they're moving to newer suburbs where they can't walk to anything. Isn't that alarming to anyone as gas prices near $4/gallon?
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