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Old 02-25-2019, 11:17 AM
 
29,630 posts, read 9,845,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Do you like paying for internet?
Another profoundly interesting development since 1776...
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:18 AM
 
29,630 posts, read 9,845,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
IN order to close the gap we have to motivate the poor to become better educated and encourage them to work harder.
Where can we get that magic wand I wonder...
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,838,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I don't agree with how you might go about deciding what people earn for whatever they do for a living, but I do agree reliance on charity is simply not moral, ethical or viable. I also don't agree people are "entitled" to help but that people who truly need help should be able to get that help if we as a society can reasonably provide that help, especially with life's basics like food and shelter, for starters. Education and health care too...
Depends on the reason someone depends on welfare (which is not the same as charity I think; charity implies voluntary contributions, welfare not). I think charity should only be an add-on to welfare, the latter of which is granted reliably based on strict criteria.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:21 AM
 
29,630 posts, read 9,845,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Because it's double taxation in this case. They are having to pay fuel taxes AND the tolls. And again, you and lifeexplorer are the only two people I've talked to who like tolls. Almost everybody hates them
Yet sadly...

Attention Drivers: Many of those those freeways you're using may not be free for long. Several states are opening new toll roads this year and rates on many existing turnpikes and tollways are going up.

The reason for this surge? Many states' transportation budgets are tight and highway funding from Washington is lacking: the federal highway trust fund is nearly insolvent, as the federal gas tax hasn't been increased in 24 years.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/57886...infrastructure

Not because people LIKE them in any case...
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,030 posts, read 14,310,076 times
Reputation: 16833
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Not sure about governments, all governments, but I do know how the preamble to our constitution reads in terms of guidance for our government, going well beyond strict protection...

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Pursuant to the Declaration, governments are instituted among men to:
1) secure endowed rights, and
2) govern those who consent.
Consent waives job #1.

That's the origin of the republican form of government, wherein American people are born equal (before the law - none higher) and have endowed rights (life, liberty, private property ownership, inherent powers, privileges, and immunities).

If one consents to be governed, as a citizen / subject, mandatory civic duties abrogate endowed rights. (Ex: militia duty - the obligation to train, fight, and die on command.)

FYI : Not all Americans could vote since electors / citizens had to be land owners, tax payers, and militia men. So "We, the people of the united States of America" had nothing to do with THEIR constitution.


"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it. The States are the parties to it. And they may complain...."
- - -Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. Mayor and Alderman, City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438, 520 (1854) Supreme Court of Georgia
---
"The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government and not for the government of the individual States."
- - -John Barron v. The Mayor and City Council of Baltimore, 7 Peters 204, (1822).
---
Articles of Confederation (1777)

Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

Please note: The 50 states united are the "United States of America".
The "United States" (federal government) refers to Congress, and its two other branches - executive and judicial.

Which people were of the "United States" and which private people are of the "United States of America?"
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:23 AM
 
14,181 posts, read 5,736,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Not sure about governments, all governments, but I do know how the preamble to our constitution reads in terms of guidance for our government, going well beyond strict protection...

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
The Preamble does not enumerate anything. For more on the scope/power/size of government being limited to what is specifically enumerated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9th Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
That's the "just because we didn't mention a specific right does not mean the people don't already have it, since this document doesn't grant rights, it merely lists a few the government is absolutely forbidden to mess with" amendment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10th Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
That's the "if we didn't list it specifically in this document, by specifically enumerating the power to the federal government, then whatever 'it' is, the States and the People retain power over it, not the federal government" amendment.

So the Constitution is very, very clear on what they meant for the federal government, which is limited to only that which is enumerated specifically and forbidden to that which is not.

Nowhere in the Constitution is the power to "control the relative wealth gap between rich and poor" an enumerated power/duty of the federal government.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:23 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,564 posts, read 45,225,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Is 1 trillion + in military spending in the Constitution?
Defense spending is less than that, and yes, national defense is a Constitutional mandate. Means-tested public assistance programs are not. Eliminate them and fund them via voluntary donations, only. Society can choose whether it wishes to financially support them or not.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:24 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,838,554 times
Reputation: 9728
I think outright abuse of welfare is not the rule at all. Most recipients simply get into situations where they need help, not because they are lazy or crooks. And it can hit anyone.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:27 AM
 
29,630 posts, read 9,845,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
No they have to motivate themselves and educate themselves to become better. The only person who can make you successful is you. No one can help you. Sure there are mentorships available to those who seek them, but if you don't have the drive to want to succeed, no amount of handouts is going to help you...
True it's ultimately up to the individual, but I worked some time as an Executive Coach, with hundreds of clients, and the research clearly showed that people with this sort of help do better achieving their goals than those without (and why large companies pay big bucks for Executive Coaches to help their leadership team members).

So it is NOT true that "no one can help you." At a minimum critical thinking requires a bit broader perspective in general than you seem willing to allow yourself.

"No man is an island" sort of thing, though anyone can choose to live as if shipwrecked on a deserted one...

Last edited by LearnMe; 02-25-2019 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:30 AM
 
29,630 posts, read 9,845,991 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Blue_04907694 View Post
Rule #1: When you incentize sloth, you get more sloth.

There will always be poor people because its very easy for humans to be lazy and stupid. But you can't have a huge number of them. Population control is needed.
Also true that there will always be lazy and stupid people. We see evidence of this everywhere, as we most certainly see in this forum on a daily basis.

I'm sensing it's time to sign off again this morning...
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