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Again, your presumption....because you are ideologically predisposed to hating the government and thus everything has to fall underneath that umbrella belief system..is that the government created the rich as some sort of patsies. You have to be really deluded to think this has even a speck of validity. Goldman Sachs runs the government because Goldman Sachs is the means by which the super rich grow and maintain their wealth, and therefore they have their tentacles all throughout the economy including the parts of government that oversee it.
I can't imagine what kind of logical flip flops you have to be doing to come up with this theory you have that makes the wealthiest people on earth be some kind of pawns. It's just weird. .
If what you said were remotely true, how come 70% of the rich people lose their wealth by the third generation and 90% by the fourth?
Right and with no state the rich are even more of a problem. The amount of mental gymnastics you must undergo to ever think this is a good idea is mind boggling.
Wrong. State power amplifies what they can do. That’s why they lobby and try to essentially write the laws and regulations...to rig things in their favor. They can’t force you to do anything or prevent you from competing with them on their own. They need to go through the government.
Again, your presumption....because you are ideologically predisposed to hating the government and thus everything has to fall underneath that umbrella belief system..is that the government created the rich as some sort of patsies. You have to be really deluded to think this has even a speck of validity. Goldman Sachs runs the government because Goldman Sachs is the means by which the super rich grow and maintain their wealth, and therefore they have their tentacles all throughout the economy including the parts of government that oversee it.
I can't imagine what kind of logical flip flops you have to be doing to come up with this theory you have that makes the wealthiest people on earth be some kind of pawns. It's just weird. .
It’s a conclusion based on pure logic and reason, not hate, ideology, or belief. It’s a fact that state power/authority can’t possibly be legitimate. I won’t derail the thread, but it’s logically impossible, literally.
But I honestly don’t know what you’re referring to with the rest of your post. I definitely never said the rich were created by anyone, or that they’re pawns. I was saying the rich are a problem when they buy government power, which has and always will happen if you have a government...and it’s much worse when they have a ton of power and involvement in society like the US government.
It’s like having a room full of people, giving one of them a gun, and some rich guy in the room bribes the guy with the gun to use it for his advantage. You can blame the rich guy, definitely, but the root of the problem is putting that gun in the room in the first place.
It seems like a lot of people naively think that you can prevent the guy with the gun from taking bribes and making deals at their expense. “We just need to tell him he’s not allowed to do that, and that he works for us.” Good luck.
It’s a conclusion based on pure logic and reason, not hate, ideology, or belief. It’s a fact that state power/authority can’t possibly be legitimate. I won’t derail the thread, but it’s logically impossible, literally.
But I honestly don’t know what you’re referring to with the rest of your post. I definitely never said the rich were created by anyone, or that they’re pawns. I was saying the rich are a problem when they buy government power, which has and always will happen if you have a government...and it’s much worse when they have a ton of power and involvement in society like the US government.
It’s like having a room full of people, giving one of them a gun, and some rich guy in the room bribes the guy with the gun to use it for his advantage. You can blame the rich guy, definitely, but the root of the problem is putting that gun in the room in the first place.
It seems like a lot of people naively think that you can prevent the guy with the gun from taking bribes and making deals at their expense. “We just need to tell him he’s not allowed to do that, and that he works for us.†Good luck.
Yes, that's exactly the same point the European economist, Anatole Kaletsky (The Economist, The Times of London, Reuters, etc.) made about how progressive taxation exacerbates income inequalities by necessity. He stated that over-reliance on progressive taxes creates "a perverse incentive for governments to promote income inequality. If the solvency of the state and the ability to fund basic services for the poorest people in society depends on the rich getting even richer, it is tempting for even the most progressive politicians to support widening inequalities."
And that's EXACTLY what has happened in the US. Just look at liberal progressive taxation enclaves like NY, CA, etc. They have extreme income inequality.
Nonsense wealth amplifies what they can do pure and simple. With nothing to reign them in you and I would be in chains. I have said many times libertarian ideology is the road to feudalism. It fundamentally ignores the power discrepancy between the classes and gives more power to the wealthy class. Its undemocratic and authoritarian and the most antithetical to freedom that has been conceived of in the modern era its no wonder its so popular with right leaning Americans.
Last edited by BornintheSprings; 02-27-2019 at 06:30 AM..
You mean there is no promise of anything but free stuff?
NO, I said what I mean. The question was asked why the poor and disadvantaged tend to support Democrats, and I said because the Democrats offer them free stuff. Where did it say they are promised nothing else? That's your straw man, tyvm.
The point being, among the various big government tyrannies each party promises, the Democrats tend more towards promising free stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Is advocating that people not be prevented from health insurance coverage due to pre-existing conditions "free stuff" far as you are concerned?
Absolutely. Creating a law that commands risk mitigation businesses to discard every mathematical and actuarial concept of risk mitigation so that people who should not have a thing can have that thing...yeah, that's promising them stuff they would otherwise not have in a normal world of a proper free market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
The ACA, for purposes of addressing the rising cost of health care for all Americans nothing but "free stuff" far as you are concerned?
The ACA commanded everyone to buy insurance so that people who couldn't have it would end up getting it for free or at heavily reduced cost based on subsidies paid for by the notion that forcing all Americans into the pool would cover the expense. Yes, that was a promise of free stuff. "The average family will see a $2500 savings" was a promise of free stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I have never voted for a Democrat for the purpose of getting "free stuff." I have worked all my life in the private sector, and I never got a "free lunch," but I did collect unemployment insurance once, when my employer laid me off because of a bad boss who couldn't understand numbers. I was later rehired after I explained this to the owner of the company. Another story, but not the first one about a good hard-working American losing his job for no fault of his own...
I paid large amounts of money into that UIF. That "free stuff" far as you are concerned? I was wrong to collect when I did?
Y u mad? Among the many things each party promises the Democrats like to promise free stuff. If you vote for them for other reasons, bully for you. I never said people didn't vote for any other reason, that is another of your straw men. The question was why poor people prefer Democrats and I stand by the notion that it's because they offer more free stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I could go on, but you too have an awfully myopic selective way of looking at all things guboment that defy the effort to apply reason and logic. There are lots of Democrats in any case who are not Democrats to get "free stuff," and lots of that "free stuff" that many Democrats DO want has more to do with simply getting a fair start that includes good health, a decent education and a reasonable shot at the opportunity the better off in this country take for granted.
A "fair start" already exists. What the Democrats offer is advantage via free stuff. If you make below X, we will give you Y in order to hep you get ahead. If you are incapable of earning X, we will give you Y to help you keep up. "If you cannot...we will give you..." is a promise of free stuff.
***** and moan all you like, but the Democrats are the bigger government party, and part & parcel of being the bigger government party is promising more free stuff to more people.
Need to reinvent America with socialism. This isn’t capitalism in this country anymore. It’s crony capitalism that has been exploited by the 1% sociopaths
Start everything from scratch under a completely new system. NOTHING will improve under the current system in place. Only get worse
Nonsense wealth amplifies what they can do pure and simple. With nothing to reign them in you and I would be in chains. I have said many times libertarian ideology is the road to feudalism. It fundamentally ignores the power discrepancy between the classes and gives more power to the wealthy class. Its undemocratic and authoritarian and the most antithetical to freedom that has been conceived of in the modern era its no wonder its so popular with right leaning Americans.
What can a rich person do to you when the government is not allowed to regulate businesses?
Need to reinvent America with socialism. This isn’t capitalism in this country anymore. It’s crony capitalism that has been exploited by the 1% sociopaths
Start everything from scratch under a completely new system. NOTHING will improve under the current system in place. Only get worse
Yeah, reinvent with slavery. Socialism is slavery where everyone is a subject of the state except for the party elites.
By the way, congratulations, you win the title of the stupidest post!
If we get rid of government regulations, the entry fee for so many businesses would be much lower particularly for the poor.
Get rid of the minimum wage do that poor people with fewer skills can work and learn.
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