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Old 02-24-2019, 07:27 AM
 
8,587 posts, read 9,082,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I think most people agree that everyone deserves to be cared for if they’re ill or injured. They already are.
I think everyone realizes that medical care is very expensive and the money has to come from somewhere. It already is.
Part of the reason that medical care is so expensive is because those of us who have insurance, or can afford to pay, must defray the cost of those who get treated free.
If we pay more to cover others now, what difference does it make if it happens by taxes or by the high cost of insurance?
Do we really think the insurance companies will be willing to go out of business, or that the drug companies are going to start charging less for drugs? I don’t think so. This is why Medicare for all will never happen.
Most if not all single payer nations still have for-profit insurance. Yes, in a single payer system drug companies will negotiate lower prices, like they do for the VA and every other nation on earth except the US.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:49 AM
 
14,361 posts, read 14,173,567 times
Reputation: 45662
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
The reason medicine is very expensive in the US is due to government interference with the free market, specifically via the FDA, and its protectionist laws and regulations. Medicine was much more affordable before the FDA and big pharmaceutical lobbies are what caused the formation of the FDA, in order to create those protections from competition. This is known as crony capitalism and crony capitalism is nothing like free market capitalism.


But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
So is your solution to this problem that we allow people without licenses to practice medicine and to allow anyone to sell anything they want as a "drug" and claim however falsely that it can cure any disease?

Do you realize how ridiculous such a notion is?

You are an example of someone who has allowed ideology to prevail over common sense.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,550,875 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnluver8956 View Post
I think capitalism is more moral here....
No such thing as free.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,550,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro5 View Post
Healthcare should be affordable but doesn't neccesarily have to be free.

Free isn't really free anyway. You pay for it one way or another. That's the part the Dems don't tell you about.
“ Affordable” is a subjective term.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,550,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
The problem is that (some) people expect the government to make things cheaper. If you look at the history of government involvement, you have a better chance of seeing bigfoot riding a unicorn on a rainbow.
That seems to depend on which government.

Some governments do a better job controlling costs, especially prescription medication costs, than others.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:02 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,700,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
Where is the country going to find free healthcare? Last I checked, hospitals aren't free, and doctors expect to be paid.
Triage should be free. Anything else is up to the patient to decide if they can afford the treatment.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,550,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
I don't mind "universal" healthcare, but that is not the same as "free"

universal healthcare is paid by the government, IE tax money. If everyone was charged a flat healthcare tax, say 1% or whatever it took, then it would be fine. <-- This is why I didn't mind the ACA tax, it made everyone either pay a fine or buy insurance themselves, but everyone "paid" at some point (at least in theory, before subsidies and all)

For me, a flat tax for healthcare makes more sense than a "progressive" one, if universal truly means universal, then everyone pays the same amount. a "richer" person doesn't carry 10 poor people because he "can" pay more. Everyone pays their share for it. If the poor needs subsidies, they can get that to help with tax, but they aren't spending it on anything else
Universal Healthcare is about access. No two countries do Universal Healthcare the same. Some rely on a public model. Some rely on a private model. Most are a mix.

What they have in common:

A definition of what must minimally be covered, and

A mandate and for the most part, citizen / resident compliance with the mandate, and

Subsidy for those with low/ no income.

Some countries require all employers to contribute, while others do not.

Most Universal Healthcare Systems require co- pays and / or coinsurance. Supplimental plans issued by private insurers to help pay for that which the basic plan does not are increasingly common.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,550,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
If the money is collected from sale taxes, no problem.

If it’s collected from income taxes, no.
A tax is a tax is a tax.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:12 AM
 
5,956 posts, read 2,195,484 times
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No it docent have to be.
But it does show you where the moral compass of a country points.

1. Tax cuts for rich, little to non for the middle class
2. Politicians and rich have access to care, many lower-middle and middle class workers do not.
3. Supports Welfare for corporations, detest welfare for the rest of the population
4. Wealthy and politicians support constant military activity while keeping their children home, Poor send children to fight in wars that enrich the already wealthy
5. Corporations have representation through speech and outsized influence via MONEY, rest of us have a vote but little influence, and no influence compared to corporations
6. Illegal immigration good for business, Illegal Immigration harming everyone else
7. Corporations are only responsible to their shareholders only and screw their workers or community, rest of use are responsible for corporate health, cannot ask for wage increases, strike, or unionize without being vilified and risk losing the company from our community.'

Again Im not saying healthcare is a moral right, but it does show moral direction, and its direction sucks.
No no its not a
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:14 AM
 
8,587 posts, read 9,082,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Triage should be free. Anything else is up to the patient to decide if they can afford the treatment.
You're in Annandale. Do you have Care-First BCBS? If you do, you do realize they are a non-profit BCBS (not all are non-profit) They cover most of the Fed and metro area. However, by law they must price their services according to what for-profits charge. Why, several years ago the non-profits were sued because their rates undercut theirs. They were not competitive and threatened their bottom line. I think the case may have fallen on Anti-trust violations. Nonprofits lost the case...rates rose...HMOs introduced in the late 70s to early 80s when my contribution was $25 a month. Gone downhill ever since.

Care-First was the best coverage I've ever had. Of all the different insurance companies I've used over the years they were the most easy to deal with. Through the years for me and especially for my wife For-profits were absolute nightmares.

Last edited by jmking; 02-24-2019 at 08:31 AM..
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