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Many Jewish friends appear not to hold Christian evangelicals in high regard. I've only one close friend who's a Christian evangelical (very rightwing). While I doubt she's anti-Semitic in any way, she's very enthusiastic about Jews for Jesus. The Pope she's suspicious of for some reason. Religion can lead to extreme views as can politics. Marry the two and, well, wow. Israeli society has always had a largely secular component. Their religious right now is gaining power, with ours, of course, influencing American politics. Interesting times.
The usa was for most of its history deeply WASP in soul and charecter where propriety was everything , the Jews saw themselves as at odds with this kind of stiff and sober charecter, around the time Reagan came to power, the Israeli lobby came to realise the assets that could be gained re_ the ( at the time) largely untapped evangelical vote, back then the evangelical vote was not staunchly republican, Jimmy Carter waa a devout evangelical, the GOP WASP always did business with the Jews re_ wall St etc but when the Israeli lobby made the likes of reverend falwell an electoral force of nature, the Northern GOP power players had to sit up and take notice
Today the GOP are fast becoming Israeli firsters in the main with extreme zionists like John Bolton in major positions of power.
OK.....an antiSemite on a parallel thread just demonstrated the link between Jew-hatred and Israel-bashing. (We are not allowed to cross-link, but it's on the thread about Omar rallying Muslims.)
His first sentence was about "the crazy people who run the banks and media and who ruined the country" (yes, I suppose he thinks Jews have ruined the country). He then goes on to bash Israel as destroying innocent lives and ruining other countries. And his concluding sentiment is that despising Israel isn't antisemitic.
In his case, it IS.
And that's the point of the thread. To show that blatant and broad condemnation of Israel, while ignoring worse from other countries, IS an indication of antisemitism.
I just told you I don't want to look the totals but to instead subtract the portion for Egypt and Jordan due to the Camp David accords and add it to the Israeli side. Foreign aid was not a point made by me so I've no motivation to myself do the work.
But to repeat an instruction that I just said I didn't find theoretically valid - to look at the totals - is may I gently suggest "parrot-like."
That's a twisted and false rationale. Foreign aid given to one country isn't counted as foreign aid given to a different country. If such were true, one could claim that all of the US's foreign aid spending is given to [insert random country, here].
Many Jewish friends appear not to hold Christian evangelicals in high regard. I've only one close friend who's a Christian evangelical (very rightwing). While I doubt she's anti-Semitic in any way, she's very enthusiastic about Jews for Jesus.
You're thinking Jews for Jesus is a pro-Jewish group? That's funny.
Many Jewish friends appear not to hold Christian evangelicals in high regard. I've only one close friend who's a Christian evangelical (very rightwing). While I doubt she's anti-Semitic in any way, she's very enthusiastic about Jews for Jesus. The Pope she's suspicious of for some reason. Religion can lead to extreme views as can politics. Marry the two and, well, wow. Israeli society has always had a largely secular component. Their religious right now is gaining power, with ours, of course, influencing American politics. Interesting times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog
You're thinking Jews for Jesus is a pro-Jewish group? That's funny.
Yes, or rather no ... it's the opposite ... the point was that while Christian evangelicals support Israel they (or rather she) are most pleased when Jews convert. The two groups - Jews supporting Israel and rightwing Christian evangelicals have been aligned politically but with not much theological love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
I think you are misreading what she wrote. I read it as “in spite of her enthusiasm for Jews for Jesus, she still doubts she is anti Semitic.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog
You're right, I probably misread that. It's still a weird remark.
I took the preference for conversion as a strong statement of her religious faith. Everybody in her world would be better off finding Jesus. She supports the state of Israel but then is also very positive about Israelis certainly in comparison to Palestinians for she's profoundly anti-Muslim. I've never heard a negative word about Jews or Judaism but then the subject has never really come up. She is concerned about global finance and the Federal Reserve with belief in various conspiracies. From this forum, some who hold those views often make anti-semitic remarks. But she never has, so ???
I started to refer to the theology connecting Israel to the Second Coming but then realized I didn't know the concepts so did a quick google to find this:
Then at the end of that period, the people of the Mosaic covenant, including the Jews, will convert. Then after their conversion, the great millennium starts. ... This is a movement in Christianity that’s as old as Christianity itself. You have this group of people looking around for signs of the end time, and in the 20th century when Israel was founded, this was seen as a major sign. This was electrifying for that community because the gathering of all the Jews in exile to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for all of these events unfolding. So for the subset of evangelicals in the 20th century, support for Israel became a really, really important political position. ... Well, the whole area is important. The tenet of Christian Zionism is that God's promise of the Holy Land to the Jews is eternal. It's not just something in antiquity. When we talk about the Holy Land, God's promise of the Holy Land, we're talking about real estate on both sides of the Jordan River. So the sense of a greater Israel and expansionism is really important to this community. Jerusalem is just central to that. It's viewed as a historical and biblical capital.
Oh, learn something everyday (my first underline). I never knew the Jews HAD to convert before the "great millennium." Well, THAT could be a problem. And THAT is why she becomes so enthusiastic about Jews for Jesus? Oh my.
The second underline is new to me also. Maybe it has something to do with the intense antipathy to Muslims? Interesting ...
Yes, or rather no ... it's the opposite ... the point was that while Christian evangelicals support Israel they (or rather she) are most pleased when Jews convert. The two groups - Jews supporting Israel and rightwing Christian evangelicals have been aligned politically but with not much theological love.
I took the preference for conversion as a strong statement of her religious faith. Everybody in her world would be better off finding Jesus. She supports the state of Israel but then is also very positive about Israelis certainly in comparison to Palestinians for she's profoundly anti-Muslim. I've never heard a negative word about Jews or Judaism but then the subject has never really come up. She is concerned about global finance and the Federal Reserve with belief in various conspiracies. From this forum, some who hold those views often make anti-semitic remarks. But she never has, so ???
I started to refer to the theology connecting Israel to the Second Coming but then realized I didn't know the concepts so did a quick google to find this:
Then at the end of that period, the people of the Mosaic covenant, including the Jews, will convert. Then after their conversion, the great millennium starts. ... This is a movement in Christianity that’s as old as Christianity itself. You have this group of people looking around for signs of the end time, and in the 20th century when Israel was founded, this was seen as a major sign. This was electrifying for that community because the gathering of all the Jews in exile to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for all of these events unfolding. So for the subset of evangelicals in the 20th century, support for Israel became a really, really important political position. ... Well, the whole area is important. The tenet of Christian Zionism is that God's promise of the Holy Land to the Jews is eternal. It's not just something in antiquity. When we talk about the Holy Land, God's promise of the Holy Land, we're talking about real estate on both sides of the Jordan River. So the sense of a greater Israel and expansionism is really important to this community. Jerusalem is just central to that. It's viewed as a historical and biblical capital.
Oh, learn something everyday (my first underline). I never knew the Jews HAD to convert before the "great millennium." Well, THAT could be a problem. And THAT is why she becomes so enthusiastic about Jews for Jesus? Oh my.
The second underline is new to me also. Maybe it has something to do with the intense antipathy to Muslims? Interesting ...
Actually, that was not what I was told (and by an Evangelical). I heard that before the "Second Coming" all Jews had to converge on Israel, and 144,000 of them would convert. The rest would go to you-know-where.
Actually, that was not what I was told (and by an Evangelical). I heard that before the "Second Coming" all Jews had to converge on Israel, and 144,000 of them would convert. The rest would go to you-know-where.
Yes, me too, although I'm hardly an expert hence my google before writing anything. There are probably different versions. Kdog seemed to think (???, sometimes hard to interpret) that any support for Jews for Jesus was anti-Semitic. I didn't get his reasoning until I read the google.
In a larger sense ... I am theoretically willing to separate anti-Semitism from the adoption of a viewpoint that is potentially against Israel, or I suppose even Judaism.
For example, even if Jews for Jesus is theologically anti-Semitic - those Jews just have to convert - in the time period before that must happen I suppose a person could have no negative stereotypes about Jews or even Judaism finding much that is positive in the practice. My friend for example sure talks a lot about Judeo-Christian ethics.
The same holds true for Israel. The overall definition would say no ... but someone could be absolutely opposed to Israel as a State and Zionism but hold Jews as an ethnic group and Judaism as a religion (assuming they are not anti-religious as many are) in high esteem, or at least be neutral. There probably are many on these forums who fall into that category.
Edited to add - Here's the link: https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761...p-evangelicals
Accuracy is always the best, for sure! Looking at it more closely ... another question seem to imply that the Second Coming can happen without all the Jews converting for those that don't will go to "you-know-where." This may be an absolute prerequisite: "This was electrifying for that community because the gathering of all the Jews in exile to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for all of these events unfolding"?
Last edited by EveryLady; 03-26-2019 at 11:31 AM..
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