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A new thread participant just jumped in - Bibi himself, with his Saturday night pronouncement that if re-elected he will begin extending Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/w...d=817469560408
It's not just the upcoming Israeli election that drives the timing but our own elections:
"For supporters of annexation, it is not only this week’s vote that is on their minds but the American election in 2020: They call President Trump’s staunch support for Israel a “historic opportunity” to proceed with annexation of some, much or even all of the West Bank — but one that comes with a ticking countdown to a possible new administration in Washington."
Per the NYT, this could well be the end of the Oslo Accords and two states with possible violence and international condemnation. "A fast-growing sovereignty movement,called Ribonut in Hebrew, has not only achieved political acceptability but has overtaken much of the powerful Israeli right wing." Netanyahu would not stop at the settlement blocks.
Some Israelis are not taking Netanyahu seriously, putting it down to 11th hour electioneering. Others believe his current political weakness and legal troubles will allow the far right to hold him to his "promise."
As a quick observation ... while both religion and history are highly relevant to the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian situation both Team A and Team B tend to turn to them to explain and/or justify the present. This depending on the context, strikes me as sometimes relevant, sometimes not. For example, the factors that influenced various outcomes at the turn of the last century differed from those that impacted the founding of the State with new variables yet in play today. No doubt there may be some constants, with others more in flux. Then the various religion-cultural factors over that, for better or for worse.
Needless to say I tend to have less patience for Bibi-driven history than I might for various actions taken by past generations under different circumstances. Too, I am not aware of any geopolitical justifications for the settlements (not including the defensive perimeter). That said, I also accept that the window for a true two state solution has passed; the settlements won't be withdrawn.
To be clear, for the missing two-state solution I might well fault Palestinian positions should I take the time to sort thru the various negotiations. If I had to guess had they been more "Western" in thought-patterns they might well have cut their losses. But that that was not their reality is as much as piece of this puzzle as are Israeli fears of annihilation. Perhaps the most that could have been hoped for was a continuation of the 50-year long stalemate, albeit with various modifications of Israeli occupation policies.
As a quick observation ... while both religion and history are highly relevant to the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian situation both Team A and Team B tend to turn to them to explain and/or justify the present. This depending on the context, strikes me as sometimes relevant, sometimes not. For example, the factors that influenced various outcomes at the turn of the last century differed from those that impacted the founding of the State with new variables yet in play today. No doubt there may be some constants, with others more in flux. Then the various religion-cultural factors over that, for better or for worse.
Needless to say I tend to have less patience for Bibi-driven history than I might for various actions taken by past generations under different circumstances. Too, I am not aware of any geopolitical justifications for the settlements (not including the defensive perimeter). That said, I also accept that the window for a true two state solution has passed; the settlements won't be withdrawn.
To be clear, for the missing two-state solution I might well fault Palestinian positions should I take the time to sort thru the various negotiations. If I had to guess had they been more "Western" in thought-patterns they might well have cut their losses. But that that was not their reality is as much as piece of this puzzle as are Israeli fears of annihilation. Perhaps the most that could have been hoped for was a continuation of the 50-year long stalemate, albeit with various modifications of Israeli occupation policies.
Well, it can always get worse ...
I've got to sign off now, but real quick before I do, if I understand you correctly, you agree with what Fielding Mellish said...
"It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham."
I've got to sign off now, but real quick before I do, if I understand you correctly, you agree with what Fielding Mellish said...
"It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham."
Close?
More ... “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -- Nietzsche
While descriptive of mankind, it also applies to the thread topic and to the political conflict.
You would be amazed at all you and others would be presented for consideration if I were committed to "working hard" in this thread to that end, but really no. There is simply no good reason to put in that sort of effort here all considered...
Instead, I'm simply making the occasional minor effort to draw focus on the facts, reason and logic that helps reveal the truth of these matters, despite all efforts to undermine that sort of discussion. When it comes to those sorts of subversive efforts with all your unjustified accusations and inability to reason beyond your extremely limited stifling bias, you are truly the one working awfully hard here, like no other. Too bad you can't get pay for overtime!
What do you mean "pay for overtime"? Are you implying that I'm part of a Jewish conspiracy, for which I am paid, to fight back against the bias that shows up as blaming "Jewish preachings" and Israel 100% for the conflict?
You still haven't be able to acknowledge that "Muslim preachings" teach genocide of all non-Muslims, and that the Arabs have turned down peace offers that require them to accept aisrsel's right to exist. What a selective bias you have! And you are still going around accusing ME of lacking in objectivity.)
All this thread did is prove the premise - and demonstrate how deeply embedded anti-Israel attitudes are in the Democrat Party, with an undercurrent of negativity toward Judaism driving a lot of it.
(Now here's where you can ridicule me again with your sarcastic taunting about "hostility toward Jews," making light of the hostility - or acting like it's NBD. And then you can go back to quoting Golgi's Jew-hating posts.)
What do you mean "pay for overtime"? Are you implying that I'm part of a Jewish conspiracy, for which I am paid, to fight back against the bias that shows up as blaming "Jewish preachings" and Israel 100% for the conflict?
You still haven't be able to acknowledge that "Muslim preachings" teach genocide of all non-Muslims, and that the Arabs have turned down peace offers that require them to accept aisrsel's right to exist. What a selective bias you have! And you are still going around accusing ME of lacking in objectivity.)
All this thread did is prove the premise - and demonstrate how deeply embedded anti-Israel attitudes are in the Democrat Party, with an undercurrent of negativity toward Judaism driving a lot of it.
(Now here's where you can ridicule me again with your sarcastic taunting about "hostility toward Jews," making light of the hostility - or acting like it's NBD. And then you can go back to quoting Golgi's Jew-hating posts.)
Oh for gosh sake, Rachel. No, LearnMe isn't implying that you're part of a Jewish conspiracy with the "pay for overtime" comment. He (or she, I don't know) is making the snarky remark that you have to work twice as hard as he does to post the same amount of commentary.
Not all posts to you are anti-Israel or anti-Jew. Some of them are just plain old snotty.
brief history of why anti-Semitism will never be accepted in USA (part 3).
It's often said that USA was an experiment, an invention. But if so, who were the inventors? Credit is often accorded to the Greeks, Romans, and scribblers of The Enlightenment such as John Locke. I argue that the ultimate inventors were Jewish thinkers. Consider:
1) The very idea of peace, writes Brit historian Paul Johnson, was a "Jewish invention." War and murder were the norms in antiquity. He writes that peace is "one of the great motifs of the Bible, especially of its finest book, Isaiah."
2)The Jews invented, or at least pioneered, the ideas of capitalism/credit. Johnson writes, "As well as developing letters of credit, the Jews invented bearer-bonds, another impersonal way of moving money. For an underprivileged community whose property was always under threat, and who might be forced to move at short notice, the emergence of reliable, impersonal paper money...was an enormous blessing...[T]he invention of paper securities were probably the biggest single contribution the Jews made to the wealth-creation process...."
Note that the USA founders saw that (1) and (2) naturally combined. Several founders echoed Montesquieu, who said, "Peace is the natural effect of trade." Quoth Thomas Jefferson in his inaugural address: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...."
3)Welfare too is of Jewish provenance. Johnson: "[P]hilanthropy was an obligation too, since the word zedakah meant both charity and righteousness. The Jewish welfare state in antiquity, the prototype of all others, was not voluntary; a man had to contribute to the common fund in proportion to his means...."
4)Slavery was the norm in antiquity. Jewish thinkers were the first to recognize it as fundamentally wrong. Johnson: "If men are all equally made in God's image, they have equal rights...It is no accident that slavery among the Jews disappeared during the Second Commonwealth [the Hasmoneans ~100 BC]."
All of us who enjoy the blessings of USA and Western Civilization owe a debt to the Jewish people that can never be fully repaid.
It's often said that USA was an experiment, an invention. But if so, who were the inventors? Credit is often accorded to the Greeks, Romans, and scribblers of The Enlightenment such as John Locke. I argue that the ultimate inventors were Jewish thinkers. Consider:
1) The very idea of peace, writes Brit historian Paul Johnson, was a "Jewish invention." War and murder were the norms in antiquity. He writes that peace is "one of the great motifs of the Bible, especially of its finest book, Isaiah."
2)The Jews invented, or at least pioneered, the ideas of capitalism/credit. Johnson writes, "As well as developing letters of credit, the Jews invented bearer-bonds, another impersonal way of moving money. For an underprivileged community whose property was always under threat, and who might be forced to move at short notice, the emergence of reliable, impersonal paper money...was an enormous blessing...[T]he invention of paper securities were probably the biggest single contribution the Jews made to the wealth-creation process...."
Note that the USA founders saw that (1) and (2) naturally combined. Several founders echoed Montesquieu, who said, "Peace is the natural effect of trade." Quoth Thomas Jefferson in his inaugural address: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...."
3)Welfare too is of Jewish provenance. Johnson: "[P]hilanthropy was an obligation too, since the word zedakah meant both charity and righteousness. The Jewish welfare state in antiquity, the prototype of all others, was not voluntary; a man had to contribute to the common fund in proportion to his means...."
4)Slavery was the norm in antiquity. Jewish thinkers were the first to recognize it as fundamentally wrong. Johnson: "If men are all equally made in God's image, they have equal rights...It is no accident that slavery among the Jews disappeared during the Second Commonwealth [the Hasmoneans ~100 BC]."
All of us who enjoy the blessings of USA and Western Civilization owe a debt to the Jewish people that can never be fully repaid.
Sounds right. Problem now is with the Israeli Govt. It believes it is OK to annex land by force, Trump agrees with it.
Oh for gosh sake, Rachel. No, LearnMe isn't implying that you're part of a Jewish conspiracy with the "pay for overtime" comment. He (or she, I don't know) is making the snarky remark that you have to work twice as hard as he does to post the same amount of commentary.
Not all posts to you are anti-Israel or anti-Jew. Some of them are just plain old snotty.
Almost correct, but thanks for weighing in against the nonsense anyway...
Of course I had nothing in mind like Rachel again goes off the rails about. I was simply noting all the effort she puts in to post all that nonstop nonsense, especially as it relates to me personally, exactly as she does here again in spades. Not that she has to "work twice as hard as I do to post the same amount of commentary." She simply puts in far more time than I do to post far more commentary -- nonsense -- than anyone!
Not snarky. Just fact. Critical about that fact, yes.
You must be new here or you would know I'm an older male soon to have a "Jewish" son-in-law. (Again in quotes, because he doesn't really consider himself Jewish).
It's often said that USA was an experiment, an invention. But if so, who were the inventors? Credit is often accorded to the Greeks, Romans, and scribblers of The Enlightenment such as John Locke. I argue that the ultimate inventors were Jewish thinkers. Consider:
1) The very idea of peace, writes Brit historian Paul Johnson, was a "Jewish invention." War and murder were the norms in antiquity. He writes that peace is "one of the great motifs of the Bible, especially of its finest book, Isaiah."
2)The Jews invented, or at least pioneered, the ideas of capitalism/credit. Johnson writes, "As well as developing letters of credit, the Jews invented bearer-bonds, another impersonal way of moving money. For an underprivileged community whose property was always under threat, and who might be forced to move at short notice, the emergence of reliable, impersonal paper money...was an enormous blessing...[T]he invention of paper securities were probably the biggest single contribution the Jews made to the wealth-creation process...."
Note that the USA founders saw that (1) and (2) naturally combined. Several founders echoed Montesquieu, who said, "Peace is the natural effect of trade." Quoth Thomas Jefferson in his inaugural address: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...."
3)Welfare too is of Jewish provenance. Johnson: "[P]hilanthropy was an obligation too, since the word zedakah meant both charity and righteousness. The Jewish welfare state in antiquity, the prototype of all others, was not voluntary; a man had to contribute to the common fund in proportion to his means...."
4)Slavery was the norm in antiquity. Jewish thinkers were the first to recognize it as fundamentally wrong. Johnson: "If men are all equally made in God's image, they have equal rights...It is no accident that slavery among the Jews disappeared during the Second Commonwealth [the Hasmoneans ~100 BC]."
All of us who enjoy the blessings of USA and Western Civilization owe a debt to the Jewish people that can never be fully repaid.
Just one quick question before I consider your "inventors of the USA experiment" comment here any further...
Are you by chance Jewish?
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brief history of why anti-Semitism will never be accepted in USA (part 3).
