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Can you please stop personally attacking Jews who disagree with your insistence, clearly based on your bias, that Israel is 100% to blame - because of "Jewish preachings"?
You should be ashamed.
And YOU are supposed to represent the tolerant, non-biased left? Thanks, but no thanks....I'll stick with the Republicans.
I admit I have some trouble reading through much you comment about in order to distill the essence of what you are explaining. Always seems "a bit of all things to me," but when I do sense where you seem to land about some things, I have offered my opinion about that landing. I dont' think I have "dismissed" or missed the rest of all you comment, but I will admit I often wonder what you are ultimately saying other than you see more than one side to these issues and observations. So do I, but I suspect I'm not quite so neutral in terms of ultimate conclusion related to these contentious issues.
You view my responses as "lectures." I can see how they might be read that way, but I don't mean to express my opinion in any way other than to express my opinion.
Here too again, I'm a little confused. You keep waiting for me to ask? Ask what?
Like others, busy today ... in the midst of a project. We're all trying, I think, to extract ourselves from this thread. That said, maybe I will type out something if only to again put Israel on a mental shelf. This isn't the medium for it, but since this thread has become so personal for some not fully getting where others are coming from only creates more conflict. It has for me.
(Full disclosure - I mind "conflict" over facts or positions not in the least !!! but still view the person behind a post with as much interest as someone I might talk to in a foreign country. Granted ... rarely is that interest developed, but the curiosity remains. Philosophically, if we are to avoid creating "the other" than the individual is where we start, even if it's on an internet forum. That that effort is in the end fruitless doesn't mean not to make symbolic attempts.)
Per the second bold (very quickly) without now moving to detail ... we interacted a few years back on a lightly populated thread about Israel where I wrote extensively about some takes. Your specific positions I don't now recall but they were close enough to mine that the interaction was profoundly positive. I tried, but couldn't locate the thread. Here, though, we've been in much more conflict. Various reasons ... but among them ...
Once I make a statement like "I support" or "chose" Israel that then leads to the assumption that position must be held with bias (though not always, yes). Sure, I could have countered that, but that then puts me on the defensive ... "I'm really not biased" or alternatively on the flip side ... "I'm really not anti-Semitic" if another position is adopted. Both became labels; both create an "other."
In a matter of this complexity or import, many are at time literally "forced" (I've kept using that word) to take a position. Since you hold strong views about process, I've always been surprised that you simply never asked "why."? That's not an egotistical request ... and to be fair, it doesn't fit well into the medium, although it would almost have to in a verbal conversation were folks talking AT each other would be unsupportable.
Re-reading your post, now the first bold. True, that. Those who are Jewish on this thread one can understand or appreciate certain positions from history. Someone else might drift thru who doesn't want overseas involvement period. That's easy to get. Very briefly, Israel started a pattern where I would go to go to place and talk to literally everybody, trying to understand then taking my observations and using books (history, ethnographers) to cross-check or validate impressions.
Israel to me is this complicated algorithm of culture and religion. You can literally find a little bit of everybody and everything - with many more than willing to talk about it! It's very accessible, or was. That conflicts appear to be becoming more intractable there in a land with peoples I viewed both with admiration and (I hope) some empathy leaves me less hopeful or positive. Then to see those issues (that yes, include anti-Semitism) inflame matters here is a secondary - and for me, new - issue.
So what's your point? The fact that we have a disproportionate number of Jews in Congress is proof that anti-semitism is overplayed? We have a disproprionate number because Jews, as a group, have higher degrees of educational attainment - and that shows up in all fields requiring education.
Again, it's the leftist attempt to convince us that anti-semitism is NBD in America. We Jews sure like to complain, don't we?
OK....time for your taunting again: "Hostility to the Jews, hostility to the Jews."
You are proving, above anyone else on this thread, that anti-Israelism IS driven, in part at least, by people with anti-Jewish attitudes.
I know lots of conservatives who thought Obama was "pret neer commeenist" for example...
That'd be my first question before review of American/Israeli policy regardless who was POTUS, D or R. Left leaning or conservative, no matter.
We haven't had any "far left" POTUS in my lifetime. Now, however, we have a group of far leftists ambling for the presidency, attempting to buy votes with other people's money. Free college! Monthly guaranteed income! All student loans wiped out! "Baby accounts" for each child! Reparations for blacks!
Bibi is and has always been a corrupt monster. Result is not unexpected as Israel has many ultra conservative fanatics. Similar to the situation in the US with another monster and right wing fanatics. The world will long pay for the actions of these tyrants well after they are rotting in hell.
Can you please stop personally attacking Jews who disagree with your insistence, clearly based on your bias, that Israel is 100% to blame - because of "Jewish preachings"?
You should be ashamed.
And YOU are supposed to represent the tolerant, non-biased left? Thanks, but no thanks....I'll stick with the Republicans.
Please...
Obviously I'm in no way tolerant of the nonsense you continue to toss around here like a dog does a rag doll.
For example, can you find anywhere that I claimed "Israel is 100% to blame?" For anything? Now, quote me verbatim please. Your twisted versions about what other people like me are saying don't count simply because you repeat these sorts of twisted misrepresentations according to your obvious agenda to subvert the truth.
Hey, but you can no doubt out do me with this sort of childish back-and-forth, and I've pretty well got to sign off now before wasting still more time with the likes. Best I try to get back to a focus on the facts of these matters and not you, but you make SO MUCH NOISE. So hard to ignore try as I do...
So too are your continued denials and insistence on ridiculing Jews who refuse to agree with you.
Kdog spoke the truth. You're so biased you cant even see it.
Here too another clarification badly needed "for the viewing audience."
If you want to call it ridicule, okay. No doubt there has been some of that, all very well justified, but I'm not "ridiculing Jews who refuse to agree with me." I have had many an exchange of opinion related to this same topic with many Jewish people that doesn't involve ridicule. Some even in this very thread.
Again do understand, the ridicule is directed at YOU. YOU because YOU deserve no better!
Obviously I'm in no way tolerant of the nonsense you continue to toss around here like a dog does a rag doll.
For example, can you find anywhere that I claimed "Israel is 100% to blame?" For anything? Now, quote me verbatim please. Your twisted versions about what other people like me are saying don't count simply because you repeat these sorts of twisted misrepresentations according to your obvious agenda to subvert the truth.
Hey, but you can no doubt out do me with this sort of childish back-and-forth, and I've pretty well got to sign off now before wasting still more time with the likes. Best I try to get back to a focus on the facts of these matters and not you, but you make SO MUCH NOISE. So hard to ignore try as I do...
Of course! You are devoted to explaining why Israel is to blame, and how the only way to solve it is if Israel gives up its "ridiculous conditions" that include it's right to exist. When have you EVER, in 150+ pages, ever criticized the Arabs for their role?
And what do you mean by my obvious "agenda to subvert the truth"? WHAT AGENDA? To show that plenty of people who are focused on condemining Israel, totally and completely, have antisemitic attitudes driving it.
What is YOUR AGENDA is subverting the truth and continuing to insist that all the crap being spewed against Israel, concurrent with quoting obscure verses to make Jews like like Satan, has nothing to do with antisemitism?
You sound like the type of liberal I can't stand: "What I say is the truth, and whoever disagrees with me is either a fool worthy of ridicule or has some secret agenda to subvert the truth."
Jews on this thread see you for what you are, even the liberal ones.
Here too another clarification badly needed "for the viewing audience."
If you want to call it ridicule, okay. No doubt there has been some of that, all very well justified, but I'm not "ridiculing Jews who refuse to agree with me." I have had many an exchange of opinion related to this same topic with many Jewish people that doesn't involve ridicule. Some even in this very thread.
Again do understand, the ridicule is directed at YOU. YOU because YOU deserve no better!
Gosh, you keep showing why I can't stand leftists like you. Why do I, a Jew who disagrees with your version of "the truth," DESERVE to be ridiculed?
You are following Alinsky's rules to a T. When you can't win the argument, start ridiculing your opponent - even a nice, compassionate, giving person who simply....shudder....disagrees with you.
I really wish you arrogant liberals would stop attacking conservatives who disagree with you.
(Have you apologized to the Jewish relatives for the oversight in scheduling the wedding during the Jewish holidays? Or are you still offended that they want to observe their religion?)
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