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Your antisemitism is starting when you put Jewish in quotes. Jew is an ethnic group also, not only religion.
Second thing is the lack of respect to his side of the family. October is a month of important holidays. You will not make a wedding in Yom Kippur, as you will not make one at Christmas.
And yes, there is also the issue of marriage to a goy. I would never attend this kind of wedding.
Wrong again and certainly not antisemitism but another perfect example of that "creep" I mentioned before...
My son-in-law does not consider himself Jewish. You can take that matter up with him. Even if he is wrong about that, and I don't think so, this is why I put Jewish in quotes. Having NOTHING to do with antisemitism even if he is wrong. Even if I am wrong! There's that "creep" again (in more ways than one).
Must be "antisemitism!" Simply inevitable as I pointed out before. An invariable inclination to drive that wedge whenever possible!
Perhaps you are not aware, in which case I won't cast similar dispersions about WHY you think what you do, but what you explain in this regard is a matter of opinion. Right or wrong, an opinion, based upon whether you follow Jewish law or don't. My future son-in-law does not. Perhaps for these kinds of reasons.
"Who is a Jew?" is a basic question about Jewish identity and considerations of Jewish self-identification. The question is based on ideas about Jewish personhood, which have cultural, ethnic, religious, political, genealogical, and personal dimensions. Orthodox Judaism and Conservative Judaism follow Jewish law (Halakha), deeming a person to be Jewish if their mother is Jewish or they underwent a halakhic conversion. Reform Judaism and Reconstructionist Judaism accept both matrilineal and patrilineal descent. Karaite Judaism predominantly follows patrilineal descent.
Jewish identity is also commonly defined through ethnicity. Opinion polls have suggested that the majority of Jews see being Jewish as predominantly a matter of ancestry and culture, rather than religion.
Note "opinion polls." What the "majority of Jews" believe. Not what everyone believes. Of course not.
People like you, "who would never attend this kind of wedding," are perhaps exactly the kind of people who tend to be a problem for others. Probably shouldn't attend any wedding having to do with love, family and peace. Again to keep it civil here...
Again, not liking the Likud party, and the way they treat the Palestinians worse than we have treated the Native Americans here, is not Anti-semitic
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220
Netanyahu is a tyrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514
Yes, absolutely, to both of these comments. And it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, though I don't expect the OP to believe it. She is a single agenda poster.
I've had numerous family discussions about the mass media vs. internet activity. What has been passed around is that the mass media doesn't like the idea that they don't have exclusive control of the conversation. If we look at the two statements made by firebirdcamaro above we have legitimate criticism that might have been stifled by media sources and called anti-Semitism by more extreme elements of the media.
The scheduling of this wedding is suspect. That being said, my close friend, who is Jewish, married a wonderful Singaporian woman in June and July 1978 (official UN solemnization and reception, respectively). His family boycotted the wedding. I attended. He and his family, thankfully, did mend fences about six years later.
Thanks again! And imagine when instead it isn't about something as simple and universally well accepted as a wedding...
Well okay, maybe weddings are not that simple, but compared to disputes that involve land, money and people's lives? It's a wonder we've been able to avoid WWIII up until now given the way some people think and act.
Here too, the difference I'd like to point out in terms of how we address these sorts of challenges. There have been some other comments about a wedding at the time of Christmas or Easter or whenever, again as if to assume what I might do if it were me.
If it were me, especially if the people getting married mattered to me, I'd do what I could to accommodate myself, my beliefs in and around the wedding. If I truly could not do that for whatever my own personal reasons, I would never suggest to the bride or groom that they change the date to accommodate me! Wouldn't even cross my mind to suggest such a thing!
Instead, I would simply explain I would not be attending the wedding, like I would any other wedding I couldn't attend. Leave it at that unless pressed for a reason why, but from what I can tell there would be no such press.
Not one inclined to talk about his family all that much, especially if it's anything negative, but as we first came to understand my daughter and he were encountering this issue, he did explain a thing or two also worth considering. In one case of such a Jewish couple who has advised they can't attend, they only attend family gatherings if the gathering is about them, to honor them, their birthday, their wedding anniversary. They never go to any other family gatherings that are not specifically about them. In those cases they claim they can't do the travel for whatever reason. In the case of my daughter and fiancé's wedding, the excuse is about honoring Jewish tradition.
Only my opinion of course, apparently shared by my future son-in-law, can't really feel all that much concern about people like this not attending. I agreed with him. Call that what you want...
If they WERE to change the date of the wedding for such a reason, I would not agree with the reasoning, but I would also keep that to myself, and again my wife and I would support whatever my daughter and her fiancé felt best. I can say that honestly, because my daughter and fiancé are such good, loving, fine people.
I have no problems whatsoever with interfaith marriages. The choice of wedding dates is not anti-Semitic unless it was picked on purpose with malice.
It is disrespectful though, even if it wasn’t done with malice. You knew he came from a Jewish family so the least you could do was to make sure it wasn’t on a Jewish holiday. It would have taken very little effort to google the dates of the holidays before picking a wedding date. I am not religious, but I probably wouldn’t attend, on principle alone. I mean, there are only 3 holidays I can think of that most Jews would skip a wedding over, leaving 362 other days in the year for the wedding.
Again, more assumptions, more unjustified accusations of all sorts, beyond any I could have expected, because I just don't think this way and more importantly, we were not part of the wedding date decision other than a quick check we could make that date once they landed on it. Needless to say, even if we did have a calendar conflict, we would change it to make sure we could make their wedding. Not the other way around!
What I think you and perhaps too many people don't understand is that all variety of religious issues for some people are not the same for most other people. It would be for our fiancé to express to my daughter and the rest of us any concerns along these lines. Not for my wife and I to concern ourselves for the many issues others may have, and of course with any wedding there are always enough issues too.
Might also add this additional bit of information, though it seems most people could care less about truly understanding the facts of these matters before spouting off, but my daughter just turned 30. They are not youngsters, so this wedding is pretty well their deal, not being managed by parents or anyone other than them.
None of this has anything much to do with me or my beliefs, my doing, yet to read some of these comments...
No doubt more evidence of just how quick people can be to judge, wrongly.
Never quite got why so many American Jews are so pro-Islamic. Do they really see Muslims just as their fellow outsiders in American society the way they also sympathize with illegal Mexicans, even despite all this Islamic anti-Semitism and Palestinian terrorism against Israel?
Now we have the US media which is mostly Jewish owned treating Ilhan OMar with kid gloves and running story after story about "Islamophobia" yet this media is often hostile to Christians and Christian causes. The Jews in Israel realize who their friends are and support Trump, maybe the Jews living in the US can learn from their breathen back at home and follow their own leader's advice.
At the risk of making the discussion more suitable for a different CD forum, I think LearnMe used quotes around the groom being "Jewish" because he doesn't attach to Jewish holidays, traditions, religion. His Jewish relatives are his invitees, so the bride's non-Jewish mother shouldn't be expected to look up a list of Jewish holidays. The kerfuffle is 100% on the groom.
Anyway, as to her question about whether she was anti-Semitic, or even disrespectful, I give a No.
I'm not sure we've seen "eye to eye" about much in the past, but today reading your comments, I'm not sure I have ever felt better about MY FAITH that SOME people can see beyond their nose. Thanks so much, again, for being exactly correct again, or at least more in line with my opinion about right vs wrong and who is responsible for what.
Not only no, but HELL NO! Of course not!
Most of the kerfuffle here (had to look that word up, love it) is 100% on the same sort of people who obviously are quick to judge, wrongly, consistently, due to faulty reason and bias that forever badly undermines their judgement. Add what I detect as a bit of meanness, and you have all the ingredients for the sort of "thinking" that I tend to criticize whenever I can, wherever I encounter it, like here in spades again.
Actually, this discussion is PERFECTLY suitable for this thread, and more than telling about what the heart of this thread is all about!
What happens when people jump to conclusion, allow their bias to rule their thinking, instead of understanding all they should before they speak!
Your take on various ethical issues is clear, and no doubt more consistent or easily understood than mine. This I acknowledge. Agree or disagree with one of your positions, your words are clear. Would it be fair to say that you use deductive reasoning to apply your strongly held principals to various situations? In turn, I look at specific events then from them try to extract some operating principal. An inductive approach.
In doing this, I'm more than willing to look at someone's history or cultural background. This is not (exactly) cultural relativism for there are absolute principals. It is worthwhile to look for and to advocate for those values. I share your focus on humanism and that human progress is possible.
I don't, however, find that most interactions are rational, at least not in our current stage of development. Frankly, we seem to be regressing these days.
Bias does rule thinking. We do not understand before we speak. There is no universal set of facts that will ever be present, or if present, agreed upon. That's why I draw this personal distinction between "criticism" and "judgment."
Criticism to me is a kind of critical thinking, more like an analysis of a work of art. That the word has other meanings no doubt makes it not the best term to use. It's part of the process of mulling over facts, summarizing, attempting to extract principals, then communicating them. The word judgment is used to imply a final rendering, that begins to approach some Biblical-like absolute.
To the best of my recall, this approach originated many years ago from:
(1) College readings on cultural relativism
(2) The Israeli-Palestinian situation (hence some of my interest in this thread)
(3) A then-rejection of Christianity per Walter Kaufmann, a German-Jewish philosopher. He drew a distinction between the Christian propensity to search for truth compared to the Judaic construction of a system of ethics.
The resultant issue with the Christian perspective was that if outside that "truth" you potentially became "The Other," one of the reasons behind the centuries-long persecution of the Jews. I instinctively embraced the Judaic system (as I perceived) it with the rabbinical tradition of debate.
That is one of the reasons I reacted so negatively to the anti-Semitic definitional movement. It was in total opposition to what I valued about Judaism.
Discourse is complicated ... weddings are complicated ... the Israel-Palestinian situation is complicated.
Yes, she should. Verifying dates is part of her job.
Weddings involve 2 families. The bride and groom get to pick the date. In my family, friends and neighbors circle, the mommas get the final say.
It was disrespectful to the grooms' family. If the bride and groom are picking up the tab, making their own plans with no consultation, they should not be surprised when his family has other plans.
Most of the people invited to the wedding, the great majority, are delighted to be invited and looking forward to the occasion.
What you say about what weddings involve is true, but some people are reasonable about such things, kind and understanding. Some are not.
I'm not one inclined to get personal when it comes to matters of religion and politics, because anecdotes should not rule our thinking or opinions, but of course this particular experience of mine happens to hit at the heart of these sorts of conflicts.
Wasn't too different for my wife and I when we planned our wedding. My wife is from SLC Utah and most of her relatives and family are from there. My wife left Utah and met me in Northern California, where she was living with her father at the time (her parents are divorced).
My wife's mother made all kinds of problems for us after my wife advised we would be married in Northern California. Our thinking, mostly my wife's, was that my family and friends would be traveling from Southern California just like her family and friends from Utah. Big issue for my mother-in-law at the time were all her friends SHE wanted to invite that would probably not make the wedding if they had to travel far from home.
Thing is, our wedding was not about my mother-in-law's friends! Not about her. Took her a little too long to understand this but eventually she came around and most of the people that really mattered in terms of friends and family were there, and they enjoyed our wedding that turned out to be just fine in the end all considered. All of us still very close or about as close as most families can be given all the issues. Thanks to better judgement and a loving frame of mind that has brought us through some difficult times along with all the mostly good times.
You and I have a different standard for when a statement moves from offensive, ill-informed, thoughtless, to anti-Semitic.
I remember a thread around Christmas when you rightly called out a poster for anti-Semitism when he blamed Jews for the 'war on Christmas' and even blamed imaginary Jewish neighbors for closing down a Christmas light display.
On this thread, I simply don't agree with every example of anti-Semitism you use
If you were a public speaker, you would have me at standing ovation at this point.
The reason you don't agree is because you are able to distinguish right from wrong in a way that all too many people can't. Sadly, all too many people. They simply lack the critical thinking skills for starters, which for starters begins by asking questions, not tossing out unjustified accusations based on bias and ignorance of the facts.
I seriously doubt that. Jewish sabbath is on Saturday. Sunday holds no religious significance for Jews other than being the first working day of the week.
Correction. Thanks. The problem was posting on a Saturday, Saturday's, not Sunday, but my criticism remains...
Why would anyone object when no one need participate in this forum when they don't want to. I need to avoid posting on a Saturday because of Jewish tradition? Hard to believe, but another true story, "believe it or not!"
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