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Today I've two projects to attend to but I've read some more about the BDS and related topics, including pulling out a book last looked at a couple of decades ago. My thoughts on this require time to coalesce then more to type out. I'll try to get to it within the next day or so.
I am gradually becoming more comfortable with the concept of an international definition of anti-Semitism. However, we all know how difficult it can be to work within existing definitions, much less to apply them to individuals. What comes to mind are the comments a Haaretz writer made at the end of his interview with Stephen Walt, the author of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy. I've not read the book but stumbled across a synopsis of a particularly controversial point where the author apparently linked Israel to the US decision to invade Iraq. Walt's views were a bit of a hot potato because he's a well-known mainstream academician, not "merely" a writer or some blogger.
Neither the Haaretz author nor I found Walt's reasoning as presented in the interview convincing. Walt has been attacked for his work, and is now labelled antisemitic. I also browsed one of his detector's critiques that contained various charges based upon Walt's previous writings and those of others in the field to whom Walt was connected. Likewise, I did not find that critique convincing, i.e., that he'd "proved" Walt to be motivated by anti-Semitism.
Back to the main point: the Haaretz writer concluded with this statement - His Jewish grandmother could always sniff out someone who hated Jews, but he, the interviewer, had not inherited her talent.
Whatever my final take on the use of anti-Semitic definitions, the wording that appears to be misused or misapplied is the "double standard" segment. That's probably what drove my initial take on the definitions -which btw I did not object to in the absolute but that they were endorsed by the US State Department for Americans. It (again the double standard portion) came across as an apparent attempt to suppress free speech. I felt manipulated.
You may well disagree with that ^^^ point - but my larger point is that if the reader's attention is distracted by thinking the double standard nonsensical (or whatever negative reaction they employ) they are much less likely to hear or process other definitional components that may well be worth their thought.
The short version is that maybe trying to address anti-Semitism (negative stereotyping of Jews as a people or Judaism as a religion) might be complicated if there is a simultaneous goal of defending the State of Israel (and it's various policies, decisions). This is only a thought, not a firm conclusion.
Sorry, don't mean to ignore your posts. It's just that yours are so much more academic and in depth that I have to be in the right frame of mind to delve into. I'll circle back.....
Sorry, don't mean to ignore your posts. It's just that yours are so much more academic and in depth that I have to be in the right frame of mind to delve into. I'll circle back.....
You've no need to apologize in the least. Here, I need to wander off. Needless to say, we disagree on about almost everything. If there is to be any hope of some elusive human progress than communication is a plus. Not so much to resolve issues, much less to convince another. That would be a foolish hope!
But just as a process. It helps to diminish the creation of this "Other" to whom we then assign so many negative characteristics.
If you were a public speaker, you would have me at standing ovation at this point.
The reason you don't agree is because you are able to distinguish right from wrong in a way that all too many people can't. Sadly, all too many people. They simply lack the critical thinking skills for starters, which for starters begins by asking questions, not tossing out unjustified accusations based on bias and ignorance of the facts.
And I assume you mean you DO have the critical thinking skills that those who disagree with you lack?
You are revealing some real negativity toward Jews. Sorry. You indicated how offended you are by Jews who choose to celebrate their Jewish High Holiday rather than attend a wedding that was scheduled, with utter disregard, to the Jewish holiday calendar - and when one member of the couple has Jewish relatives! Instead of being "put off" by these Jews (you did say it was "off-putting" that they wouldn't attend), perhaps it would be better to apologize for the oversight you daughter and future SIL committed.
Here's what I would suggest you daughter and SIL do: Acknolwedge the mistake. Send out notes to his Jewish relatives who are unable to attend the wedding due to the conflict, and express how sorry they are that in the midst of their excitement, they neglected to consult the calendar. I would add in a note saying that while we will miss you at our wedding, we look forward to seeing you at future family celebrations. If your daughter hopes to have pleasant relationships with her Jewish relatives, that's the smart way to handle it at this point.
But whatever you do, don't turn it around and chastise the Jews for not attending, which is what you did in your first post in the subject.
Last edited by Rachel976; 03-17-2019 at 12:51 PM..
Correction. Thanks. The problem was posting on a Saturday, Saturday's, not Sunday, but my criticism remains...
Why would anyone object when no one need participate in this forum when they don't want to. I need to avoid posting on a Saturday because of Jewish tradition? Hard to believe, but another true story, "believe it or not!"
I cannot believe a Jew told a Christian not to use the computer on Shabbos. Ridiculous.
You may never see the grooms family ever again. Having not discussed anything about the wedding with his family suggest even the couple are consumed with their own needs.
Live long and prosper.
Yes, they do sound selfish. And LearnMe is defending them, almost PROUD that they thought only of themselves.
LearnMe: I'm giving you good advice above about writing the notes in which the couple apologize for their oversight. If you daughter wants pleasant relationships with her Jewish relatives, she needs to do this.
Waddya mean "most people are not that way"? You mean you think more highly of Jews who will ignore a major Jewish holiday to attend the wedding of a couple, one of whom has a Jewish family, since the couple didn't even consider the ramifications of scheduling on a major Jewiah holiday? And you think LESS of those stubborn Jews who will not attend the wedding?
And you did admit that your daughter and future SIL didn't even give a passing thought to the fact that his family is Jewish and that they were scheduling a conflict? It's all about them, and the Jews should "act like other faiths" and ignore their own obligations?
(Are you the mama or the daddy in this scenario?)
Keeping talking Rachel. I'm beginning to come around.
My SIL's father was non practicing jew. When he married a Presbyterian his mother did sit shiva. And she had a lot of company.
IMO, planning a big deal ceremony during any religious observance require polling the whole delegation. It may not mean anything to the couple, but aunts, uncles and cousins matter.
Keeping talking Rachel. I'm beginning to come around.
My SIL's father was non practicing jew. When he married a Presbyterian his mother did sit shiva. And she had a lot of company.
IMO, planning a big deal ceremony during any religious observance require polling the whole delegation. It may not mean anything to the couple, but aunts, uncles and cousins matter.
Hey.....I'm making headway with someone!
I'm sorry your SIL's father's mother sat shiva in the face of an interfaith marriage. But it sounds like that's a couple of generations up. I personally know nobody who ever sat shiva, or "disowned" or whatever, when their Jewish child married out of the religion. My family and I have attended many such weddings, and enjoy the celebration.
Of course, it wasn't held on a Jewish holiday. I could see where this issue might inadvertently happen when a Christian couple schedules their wedding, oblivious to the fact that they might have some Jewish friends who would run into a conflict. What's remarkable here is that one of th couple is Jewish himself, and even if he is non-practicing, he still has an entire family of Jews. He didn't even give a passing thought to them.
The wedding couple owe a note of apology to his half of the family for their oversight. They made a mistake.
I'm sorry your SIL's father's mother sat shiva in the face of an interfaith marriage. But it sounds like that's a couple of generations up. I personally know nobody who ever sat shiva, or "disowned" or whatever, when their Jewish child married out of the religion. My family and I have attended many such weddings, and enjoy the celebration.
Of course, it wasn't held on a Jewish holiday. I could see where this issue might inadvertently happen when a Christian couple schedules their wedding, oblivious to the fact that they might have some Jewish friends who would run into a conflict. What's remarkable here is that one of th couple is Jewish himself, and even if he is non-practicing, he still has an entire family of Jews. He didn't even give a passing thought to them.
The wedding couple owe a note of apology to his half of the family for their oversight. They made a mistake.
If anyone should apologize, it's the groom. The daughter is 30 years-old, the groom I'm sure is old enough to be responsible for his own mistakes. To make my point, I could throw in a stereotyping Jewish mother joke or two about meddling, but that might be anti-Semitic.
btw, Learnme mentioned having a wife. Statistically, that means more likely male than female.
Frankly, as someone who recently got married, I am sick to death of extended family treating the couple's wedding as the "their day", them being the extended family. Getting married is stressful enough without people who barely have a footprint in your lives as a couple dictating what happens on "your day", you being the bride and groom.
On what WEEKEND does Yom Kippur occur this year skipper?
Yom Kippur occurs on sundown Tuesday, October 8 to sundown Wednesday, October 9. But the analysis doesn't end there. The entire period September 29 sundown to October 22, 2019 at sundown is pretty well littered with days that Jews won't work, travel or celebrate secular functions. Not all those days but an awful lot of them.
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