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Old 05-27-2019, 10:43 PM
 
5,110 posts, read 3,030,863 times
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That's not probable cause when it comes to the legal term probable cause, and will not hold up as such in court.

They should have actual legal probable cause to ask someone for ID cause if you put that restriction on police, then they will just ask anyone just because they can.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:09 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,582,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
What if they made it a law that a cop is not allowed to ask anyone for ID, unless they have probable cause that a crime has been committed. Would that reduce excessive harassment, in cases such as this?

there are laws that prevent police officers from just walking up to you and asking for your ID, even in stop and ID states. they MUST have probable cause to try to ID you, either you ahve to have committed a crime, are about to commit a crime, or are committing a crime, or they have stopped you legally on a traffic violation, at which point they MUST tell you why they are asking fro your ID. they cannot just ask for your ID.


and probable cause is NOT suspicious behavior, or they are investigating a complaint, or some such garbage. they MUST be able to identify a statute, law, or code violation in order to ID you legally. if not you can tell them to shove it up their backsides.


and they will threaten you with obstruction or resisting without violence, or other secondary crimes to try and force you to ID, but again they are blowing smoke at you. if they try that crap, then tell them to go ahead and arrest you, and you will deal with it in court. teh judge will then toss the case 999 times out of 1000 since there was no probable cause to arrest you in the first place. at which point you can file federal civil rights violations charges against the cop roach, do it as criminal charges as they can be felonies and that means the cop roach goes to jail and loses their ability to ever be a LEO ever again if convicted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Cops would ignore the law, or make up an excuse.

true enough, however when they do that, the courts these days are more likely to toss the case out, and give you ammunition to sue the officer personally, along with the department.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
That is the law. Well, they can ask but you don't have to provide it.

again true enough, unless they can quote the statute or code you are violating, they cannot force you to give your ID.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:28 AM
 
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Okay so in this particular case, I said the guy should just have went back into his apartment and lock the door so the cop would not harass him anymore. I don't think the cop would have shot him while walking away, just because he wanted to see an ID and had no probable cause, especially when he has a camera turned on.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,583,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Okay so in this particular case, I said the guy should just have went back into his apartment and lock the door so the cop would not harass him anymore. I don't think the cop would have shot him while walking away, just because he wanted to see an ID and had no probable cause, especially when he has a camera turned on.
People have been killed for trying to just walk away from a cop. As nearly as I can tell, the only reason that this cop didn't use the gun he was waving around was because a superior officer told him to stand down.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:50 PM
 
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Yeah I guess. So what happend in this case, then and how is it turning out, for the cop?

What was the cop's motive anyway? Why does he want to see an ID so badly, that he is willing to shoot the person? What's the motive? And why call for back up, since back up may ruin your plans to shoot the person if the person will not provide an ID? Why did he call for it, since this cop is up to no good anyway?
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:57 PM
 
15,349 posts, read 12,523,360 times
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Some ***** ass scared cops these days.

Scared of a bucket and tongs?
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Old 05-28-2019, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,583,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Yeah I guess. So what happend in this case, then and how is it turning out, for the cop?

What was the cop's motive anyway? Why does he want to see an ID so badly, that he is willing to shoot the person? What's the motive? And why call for back up, since back up may ruin your plans to shoot the person if the person will not provide an ID? Why did he call for it, since this cop is up to no good anyway?
Cop resigned. Police report concludes there was no racial bias (yeah, right), but did say that the cop violated a couple of department policies.

Relevant quote -

"The investigation found that Smyly, who had been with the department for 14 years with no prior history of disciplinary action, violated two police department policies, but the report did not find evidence of racial profiling, according to the department. He also did not have probable cause to charge Atkinson with obstructing a police officer, or any other crime. The other officers who responded to Smyly’s call for assistance were cleared of any wrongdoing.

“The subject officer should have ended his contact with Mr. Atkinson as soon as Mr. Atkinson provided his name, address and a brief explanation of what he was doing,” according to the report."

https://koaa.com/news/covering-color...king-up-trash/

My conclusion is that the cop went all macho, and couldn't back down. The black guy could have acted better as well, but he did provide the cop with the info requested, and a rational cop would have takes a deep breath, and said "OK sir, you're fine, I'm sure you understand that we have to respond to reports of suspicious persons, thank you for your time."

FTR, in the black guy's shoes, I would have been mightily pissed off too. But I'm an older, retired, white woman, and I am quite sure no cop would ever have pulled a gun on me in this situation, no matter how mouthy and angry I got, and believe me, I would not have held back.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:01 AM
 
5,110 posts, read 3,030,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Cop resigned. Police report concludes there was no racial bias (yeah, right), but did say that the cop violated a couple of department policies.

Relevant quote -

"The investigation found that Smyly, who had been with the department for 14 years with no prior history of disciplinary action, violated two police department policies, but the report did not find evidence of racial profiling, according to the department. He also did not have probable cause to charge Atkinson with obstructing a police officer, or any other crime. The other officers who responded to Smyly’s call for assistance were cleared of any wrongdoing.

“The subject officer should have ended his contact with Mr. Atkinson as soon as Mr. Atkinson provided his name, address and a brief explanation of what he was doing,” according to the report."

https://koaa.com/news/covering-color...king-up-trash/

My conclusion is that the cop went all macho, and couldn't back down. The black guy could have acted better as well, but he did provide the cop with the info requested, and a rational cop would have takes a deep breath, and said "OK sir, you're fine, I'm sure you understand that we have to respond to reports of suspicious persons, thank you for your time."

FTR, in the black guy's shoes, I would have been mightily pissed off too. But I'm an older, retired, white woman, and I am quite sure no cop would ever have pulled a gun on me in this situation, no matter how mouthy and angry I got, and believe me, I would not have held back.
Oh okay, I did not know there was a call about a suspicion person that the cop responded too. I thought the cop was just out fishing or something along those lines.

Why did he resign, were they going to fire him and he just had a "you can't fire me, I quit!" attitude about it?
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,583,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Oh okay, I did not know there was a call about a suspicion person that the cop responded too. I thought the cop was just out fishing or something along those lines.

Why did he resign, were they going to fire him and he just had a "you can't fire me, I quit!" attitude about it?
Who knows, I haven't seen anything about that.

If I had to guess, though, I'd say it was likely a "if you don't want to get fired, you can save a little face and resign" situation. Resigning voluntarily means that he can keep whatever pension rights he has, whereas if he was fired, he'd lose them. Also, resigning means that he has a somewhat better chance of getting hired by another police department than if he was fired.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:23 AM
 
58,294 posts, read 26,653,799 times
Reputation: 14046
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post


HLN Headline News did a story on this.

A nosy neighbor called the cops:

https://newsone.com/3847888/boulder-...king-up-trash/
Looks like another, as if we don't have enough, liberal unknown rag to me.

"Besieged Police Chief Greg Testa looked into the audience and saw folks clacking trash grabber" Real mature of them!


"the cop decided to detain him and call for assistance, claiming that the man was uncooperative and refused to put down the grabber he was using to pick up trash


"The man was fortunate to survive the encounter." Nothing blowing up the situation to sensationalize the indecent!
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