Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It would cost the shareholders a lot more money if more planes crash and Boeing or the FAA eventually find a flaw with the plane's engineering or with its pilot training.
Agreed! That seems to be the reason for the foot-stomping, though; shareholder money lost on grounded flights.
You dont think that maybe, just maybe, China is doing this just to hurt Boeing and the US? I mean seriously China is the single greatest producer of absolute crap in the world.
Based on what has Feinstein made this call? Does she have inside information? We know this happened because of a manufacturing or design defect? It absolutely wasn't due to human error? Lack of maintenance and or repair? Procedures not being followed? A natural event like a bird strike to an engine?
Politicians grandstanding completely undermine any rational process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
And you have evidence that they are poorly made? They might be, I don't know, but until I see evidence I will wait for the facts. Why would Boeing sell an aircraft that could potentially destroy their company? I fly a lot and would have 0 as in zero fear to fly on any Boeing product.
I listed possible causes, I never listed any conspiracies.
Yeah I know using a real troubleshooting process is all about conspiracies. It is much better to do what Feinstein and others are doing and jump to cause, with 0 facts or evidence to back it.
China doing what they did is a typical Chinese strategy. China's C919 doesn't stand to benefit if Boeing lost orders? China cares not a bit about safety or quality.
I bet she is the most popular Senator today in several States. I have never heard of such a thing before - we could call this "unprecedented" and where is her rational for this?
Is is just that she wants a News Story? Is it that she is totally Senile?
Is there anyone here that actually thinks that Boeing Air is willing to deal with the massive legal problems involved IF they had even a small suspicion of any danger to this aircraft?
The Lawsuits are so MASSIVE that any "grounding" is a very, very, very Serious business.
Unbelievable
Apparently Senator Feinstein is a LOT wiser than Kibby. SHE was RIGHT. Kibby was WRONG!
Even Kibbys' great orange-headed god eventually sided with Feinstein. The planes have now been grounded EVERYWHERE.
Sounds like it was the right call to do that until the problem is resolved.
DANG! That Senator Feinstein is SMART eh?
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 03-13-2019 at 09:11 PM..
Boy this thread did not age well did it? It appears what's been revealed about a fault sensor, fatal software scheme, unresponsive trim control, and what appears to be the pilots doing all the correct things according to Boeing's instructions has led to the catastrophe. I suspected something was seriously wrong with the plane after the first crash.
Anyone else follow all the Tesla AP crashes and is it fair to make the comparison? Both systems heavily rely on sensors and software, where anomalies that the programmer did not predict has occurred and the system responds with a false-positive. In the case of the Boeing plane, it appears the system thinks the plane is pitching at a 73 degree angle and the software over-rides the pilot by forcing a dive to prevent a stall (that isn't present). The Tesla's AP appears to have a hard time identifying emergency vehicles, trailers, construction zones, k-railing, and repainted lane markings resulting in numerous errors. In a few instances, the software forces the car into the center divider.
Its scary when engineers fail to create fail-safe redundancies to prevent AI error. You have to remember these software programs are doing exactly what the are programmed to do; it's just the designer didn't predict every scenario.
Boy this thread did not age well did it? It appears what's been revealed about a fault sensor, fatal software scheme, unresponsive trim control, and what appears to be the pilots doing all the correct things according to Boeing's instructions has led to the catastrophe. I suspected something was seriously wrong with the plane after the first crash.
Anyone else follow all the Tesla AP crashes and is it fair to make the comparison? Both systems heavily rely on sensors and software, where anomalies that the programmer did not predict has occurred and the system responds with a false-positive. In the case of the Boeing plane, it appears the system thinks the plane is pitching at a 73 degree angle and the software over-rides the pilot by forcing a dive to prevent a stall (that isn't present). The Tesla's AP appears to have a hard time identifying emergency vehicles, trailers, construction zones, k-railing, and repainted lane markings resulting in numerous errors. In a few instances, the software forces the car into the center divider.
Its scary when engineers fail to create fail-safe redundancies to prevent AI error. You have to remember these software programs are doing exactly what the are programmed to do; it's just the designer didn't predict every scenario.
I wonder how many more lives would have been lost had governments not stepped on and grounded these planes. And Boeing insisted the entire time that there was no problem and the planes were safe.
I wonder how many more lives would have been lost had governments not stepped on and grounded these planes. And Boeing insisted the entire time that there was no problem and the planes were safe.
We will never know. I'm sure Boeing and the FAA will be investigated about what they knew, when, and why. This does appear to be failure of regulation and it's very curious that the CEO of Boeing was praising the Trump administration for streamlining regulations, in that the fast process of less regulation is good for business. It's been said that Boeing has been under a lot of pressure to produce the plane as it's America's largest export (GDP). A damning statement comes from a former Boeing designer who stated the plane was designed to avoid regulatory inspections of the system. The lawsuits are piling in as circumstances would have it, Ralph Nader is suing on behalf of his niece who perished in the latest crash.
Apparently Senator Feinstein is a LOT wiser than Kibby. SHE was RIGHT. Kibby was WRONG!
Even Kibbys' great orange-headed god eventually sided with Feinstein. The planes have now been grounded EVERYWHERE.
Sounds like it was the right call to do that until the problem is resolved.
DANG! That Senator Feinstein is SMART eh?
Ken
Point was always that Feinstein called for a grounding BEFORE the FAA even investigated ... not that the planes didn’t need to be grounded. That’s called jumping the gun, we have Investigations for a reason and it’s not part of her job description to ground aircraft.
Boeing made a serious error when they decided that they didn’t need to do additional training on the upgrade.
The FAA should have never allowed that.
- and we need to know exactly why they did.
Point was always that Feinstein called for a grounding BEFORE the FAA even investigated ... not that the planes didn’t need to be grounded. That’s called jumping the gun, we have Investigations for a reason and it’s not part of her job description to ground aircraft.
Boeing made a serious error when they decided that they didn’t need to do additional training on the upgrade.
The FAA should have never allowed that.
- and we need to know exactly why they did.
After 2 crashes, it was time to ground the planes IMMEDIATELY - and the FAA was dragging it's feet. We need to know WHY the FAA allowed the plane to be certified with so little additional training and WHY the FAA dragged it's feet grounding the plane.
I have a friend who's a retired 737 pilot (20 years) and he told me flat out, that after that 2nd crash, there was CLEARLY something wrong with the plane. Modern planes like the 737 just do not crash unless there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. He says you can't crash the planes if you try. For 2 brand new planes to crash back to back there had to be something wrong with the aircraft - and sure enough HE was proven right - as was Feinstein. The FAA dragged it's feet (WHY?), and Feinstein was RIGHT to hold their feet to the fire. Without such political pressure who knows how long the FAA might have resisted grounding the planes. Every other country flying those planes had ALREADY grounded the "max", only the US was delaying. What was the FAA waiting for - ANOTHER crash and MORE lives gone?
Kibby however was clueless in making a political attack over a SAFETY issue - and Kibby got called on it.
Ken
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
