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Old 03-20-2019, 09:08 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Get rid of the party system, and have the central government be that of a small confederacy. The smaller and more cut up politics is, the harder it is to amass influence.

Along with direct democracy, it would be harder then than now to consolidate power. Like I said before, communism does not require central planning.

A.Everything I know about *communism* ( or rather "developed socialism," as it was a case in the Soviet Union,) this system is all about central planning and can't exist without it.

Once you hand the means of production to the state, all the profits go directly to the state and the state then redistributes it among the workers.

It's only logical then, that once all the funds are concentrated in government's hands, the government is the one who decides what kind of projects to invest in next.

B."Direct democracy" can't operate in big modern states; there are too many issues involved in all spheres of life, in different corners of every modern state.
"Direct democracy" is good only for villages and ancient small states.


And the last but not least; "party system" usually consolidates people around certain ideas, because different people have different beliefs.

How are you going to deprive people of ideas, thus prohibiting them to unite with the purpose of changing/improving the economic/political conditions in which they operate?
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:15 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
And how does shrinking the size of government do that?

Did Russia gain more freedom when the government cartels became private in the 1990s?

Obviously not, so all these fairy-tales about "freedom" under capitalism are just that - the fairy-tales.
Just because the society is free from ideological oppression, that doesn't mean that it's not adhering to the reign of money. The lower you go down the ladder, the more obvious and stronger the oppression is.

Last edited by erasure; 03-20-2019 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:22 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Folks who work very hard, create jobs for others, create opportunities for others... Why should they make no more money than a cashier at McDonald's?

Because truth to be told, those *opportunities* ( i.e. the jobs) can be created by someone else instead - namely the government.

Last edited by erasure; 03-20-2019 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:28 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Why would I want to change our current system? It allowed me to retire at 55 years old and live comfortably.
It has allowed me to own land measured in acres, 3 houses and much more. I dont need some local party officials deciding that maybe Boneyard has too much and redistributing my assets, (usually among themselves).

Utopian concepts typically turn into anything but a Utopia in practice. No thanks. Until you can show us a communist country that didn't turn into a nightmare, your position is a fail. Our system is flawed, has corruption. and is less than perfect, but at least I can be more than I was born into. There is no example of any communist country that didn't end up creating the haves and have nots just like the west. The difference is in our system we can work our way up from the bottom. Communists? They only escape the bottom by selection from party leaders.

Of course you wouldn't want to change the system.
People who directly benefit under capitalism - now why would they want to change a thing?
This would be strange.
It's the ones who find themselves short-changed are interested in changes.
Them, and the eternal seekers of "truth and justice," no matter what side of spectrum they are on.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,524,353 times
Reputation: 35437
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmexman View Post
I am so sick of our society that so blatantly favors the rich and corporations! Our society so passively lets the rich buy their way into the best universities, lets the rich buy their way out of justice, lets corporations have an iron grip on workers who suppress their rights and quality and life, and more! What we need to eliminate this problem is embrace COMMUNISM! A good start is to embrace people like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who fight for the PEOPLE, not for the rich and not for corporations!

I would rather live under communism than our twisted capitalist society.
So move to a communist country. There are still a few of them. Then you can go see how glorious it is to live under communist rule. As a person who lived in a communist country I can tell you that you have no idea what you’re talking about

The ONLY people who think communism is great are the ones who never experienced it or the ones in power in the communist party.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:19 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
That is not how it works. Governments are just governing bodies.

If you had a community council, that would technically be the government. Private power still has authority over your life as well.
How can a community council do anything to you without the government?

You have a choice to not join the community. If you don’t agree with them after you joined, you can move right?

If it’s done voluntarily, who cares?
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,429,771 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
How can a community council do anything to you without the government?

You have a choice to not join the community. If you don’t agree with them after you joined, you can move right?

If it’s done voluntarily, who cares?
That’s just a question of scale.

It’s like saying if you don’t like the government of a country you can move.

It is all the same thing, which is governing.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,429,771 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
So move to a communist country. There are still a few of them. Then you can go see how glorious it is to live under communist rule. As a person who lived in a communist country I can tell you that you have no idea what you’re talking about

The ONLY people who think communism is great are the ones who never experienced it or the ones in power in the communist party.
Communism is not about being state run, it's much more than that.

Laos, Vietnam, etc. are just state capitalist.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,429,771 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
A.Everything I know about *communism* ( or rather "developed socialism," as it was a case in the Soviet Union,) this system is all about central planning and can't exist without it.

Once you hand the means of production to the state, all the profits go directly to the state and the state then redistributes it among the workers.

It's only logical then, that once all the funds are concentrated in government's hands, the government is the one who decides what kind of projects to invest in next.

B."Direct democracy" can't operate in big modern states; there are too many issues involved in all spheres of life, in different corners of every modern state.
"Direct democracy" is good only for villages and ancient small states.


And the last but not least; "party system" usually consolidates people around certain ideas, because different people have different beliefs.

How are you going to deprive people of ideas, thus prohibiting them to unite with the purpose of changing/improving the economic/political conditions in which they operate?
You don't need central planning to have communism.

If the economy was made up of worker cooperatives, credit union banks, and if politics was decentralized, things could be communist.

But you would have to get rid of private property laws in exchange for personal property.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:26 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You don't need central planning to have communism.

If the economy was made up of worker cooperatives, credit union banks, and if politics was decentralized, things could be communist.

But you would have to get rid of private property laws in exchange for personal property.
How would even decide who gets to farm on which land and how much? Remember all means of production are owned by the state.
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