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Old 03-24-2019, 02:37 PM
 
30,157 posts, read 11,789,790 times
Reputation: 18671

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Huh? You do know that when a court declares someone "not guilty" that is not the same as innocent, right?

It's essentially the same result.

 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:38 PM
 
Location: United States
12,390 posts, read 7,096,148 times
Reputation: 6135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
We all knew he would. I've predicted this from the beginning. The evidentiary bar is too high and Trump is too slippery and has a lot of buffers.
First you believe in collusion without a single piece of evidence, now you refuse to believe there was no collusion even when confirmation is released.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:38 PM
 
11,181 posts, read 10,531,383 times
Reputation: 18618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Lack of evidence doesn't prove innocence. Barr says there's no evidence of collusion; but Trump and his team could have colluded, but were careful to cover their tracks. This would explain why so many of Trump's people lied to Congress and Trump obstructed.
Barr's letter doesn't say that. It quotes the report: "This investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".
Which means they didn't find *sufficient* evidence to establish it.

In his letter, Barr tries to soften that statement in his letter by preceding it with his (Barr's) own paraphrase: "The Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with coordinated with the Russian government in its efforts to influence [the election].
Which noticeably dilutes Mueller's statement but it still doesn't say there's NO evidence.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:38 PM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,399,488 times
Reputation: 9438
Trump supporters seem to forget that the reason there was so much focus on Mueller was because Trump himself couldn't shut up about it. His entire course of conduct was one of a guilty party..bashing Mueller, calling it a "hoax", stonewalling, refusing to testify, shifting excuses, etc.

In another time, Trump's words and actions would have been considered obstruction of justice. I don't know what a president can now do that would be considered obstructio0n of justice.

Trump's off the hook on obstruction and collusion.

Trump won, the nation lost.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:39 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,001 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13701
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Yea, I think you murdered that guy here in Miami last night. I have no evidence, but lack of evidence does not prove your innocence.
That's pretty much it.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:39 PM
 
45,579 posts, read 27,180,466 times
Reputation: 23889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Lack of evidence doesn't prove innocence. Barr says there's no evidence of collusion; but Trump and his team could have colluded, but were careful to cover their tracks. This would explain why so many of Trump's people lied to Congress and Trump obstructed.
In other words... you will perpetually consider Trump and others you don't like as guilty.

May you be judged be own own standards.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:40 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,815,515 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Huh? You do know that when a court declares someone "not guilty" that is not the same as innocent, right?
In court, that means exactly that, innocent, as your are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:40 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,563,173 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Huh? You do know that when a court declares someone "not guilty" that is not the same as innocent, right?
Right. Because innocence can never be proven.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Barr's letter doesn't say that. It quotes the report: "This investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".
Which means they didn't find *sufficient* evidence to establish it.

In his letter, Barr tries to soften that statement in his letter by preceding it with his (Barr's) own paraphrase: "The Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with coordinated with the Russian government in its efforts to influence [the election].
Which noticeably dilutes Mueller's statement but it still doesn't say there's NO evidence.
From Barr's letter:

Quote:
The Special Counsel's decision to describe the facts of his obstruction investigation without reaching any legal conclusions leaves it to the Attorney General to determine whether the conduct described in the report constitutes a crime. Over the course of the investigation, the Special Counsel's office engaged in discussions with certain Department officials regarding many of the legal and factual matters at issue in the Special Counsel's obstruction investigation. After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.
 
Old 03-24-2019, 02:41 PM
 
7,520 posts, read 2,808,426 times
Reputation: 3941
From Barr's letter:

Quote:
Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.
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